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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Ball and Cone on Video/DVD (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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the conjurer
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Hi all-

The subject line says it all.

Anywhere I might find video and/or DVD that teaches "Cone and Ball" routines? Book suggestions are welcome too.


Thanks,


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TheAmbitiousCard
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Dai vernon book of magic
Revelations video/DVD
aldo colombini cone-tact video/set

Tom Stone Deserting the Legion notes

Harry Riser - Feints and Tempts of Harry Riser book.
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Dave V
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This routine is difficult to comprehend, at least it is for me. Frank pretty much told you every source there is for this. I have them all except for the Riser book and I still haven't figured it out.

I heard that Vernon wasn't that happy with the routine either but Ganson wanted some "filler" for the book so they threw something together.

You'd probably do as well, or even better, using the basic steal/load methods taught and create your own routine. If I was a more creative sort, that's what I would have done. In the mean time I have the props decorating my bookshelf.

BTW, nobody makes better cones than Frank, but he's probably too humble to say so himself. As far as I know, Aldo's set now comes with Frank's cones.
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the conjurer
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Thank you Dave and Frank. Looks like you made short order of that question. Dave I am aware of the quality products produced and sold by Frank, but thanks for the recommendation.

Cheers,


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Bill Palmer
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I attended the $1000 lecture that Dai Vernon did. He was not happy with the Ganson description, because Ganson ovecomplicated it. He said that he told Lewis that when you do the "move," you th--- p--- the ball. Ganson replied, "You can't th--- p--- a billiard ball."

So he said, "Yes you can," and he did it.

Vernon used a fairly decent sized billiard ball when he did this. It was not thrown together for the book. He had used it in the Harlequin act.
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Dave V
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I see now I could have phrased it better. When I said it was thrown together, I was talking about the Ganson rewrite, not that Vernon hadn't done it before. Sorry for any confusion.
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The interesting thing about the routine was that it lay almost completely dormant until that tour. However, once Vernon taught it correctly, many people started doing it.

Before then, though, Gary Wolfsberger came out with his ball and cone routine, which was done with a solid wooden cone.

If you can find it, you should get it.
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Tod Todson
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Wouldn't Kaps stand-up routine with the bubble fit this posts requests for DVD examples? If so, it would be on the new "Seeing Is Believing" DVD.
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I just recently re-read Tom Stone's routine. It's really great.
His material is well worth acquiring.
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Richard Evans
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Torkova has a very nice routine that was sold as a video & booklet combination. Difficult to find now, though.

In addition to the suggestions above, Senor Mardo also published a ball & cone routine in his booklet on the cups and balls (called 'The Cups and Balls').
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Josh the Superfluous
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My hands are trembling as I type this. I am about to disagree with Bill Palmer on a ball and cover issue. I just watched the part of Revelations in which Vernon does state the routine that he submitted for the Ganson book was thrown together.
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Dave V
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That's not exactly what Bill said, or what I tried to say (badly) the first time. Bill's full sentence was
Quote:
It was not thrown together for the book. He had used it in the Harlequin act.


Yes, Ganson wanted some last minute filler for the book. Vernon had done this routine for a long time. Ganson didn't like the explanation, so what I meant by "thrown together" was that it was modified to suit Ganson's belief that it couldn't be done the way Vernon described it. This was a specialized piece for his Harlequin act, and he relied a lot on costuming for cover. That's probably why Ganson did what he did when he rewrote it to try and suit a more modern performer.
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Josh the Superfluous
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I understand what you're saying, and will rewatch what I did last night. But my take on what Vernon said, was that Vernon had made up a routine that was different than his Harlequin piece, that he had thrown together before Ganson wrote it up. (where's Mike Doogan when I need him?)

It's a silly argument that I shouldn't choose to fight, but here it is.

Whatever the story is, we all agree the Ganson write up is lacking. It's funny that I was drawn to that routine immediately, but started rewriting it as soon as I started working on it. The '3' ball trick, however, I do phase for phase.
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Josh the Superfluous
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OK. I heard it straight from the professor's mouth. Ganson wanted more material and asked Vernon about the Ball & Cone from the Harlequin act. Vernon felt the routine didn't work without the costume, his felt hat (the cone), and make up. So I quote:

"So in about an hour, I made up a very bad routine which appeared in there." -Dai Vernon

For all the times that Bill has correctly pointed out that I was wrong about something, I will do a little Rocky dance over this. Smile

BTW he fact that I was right about something that Dave backed off of is no unnoticed accomplishment as well. We just don't have the history. Smile Smile Smile
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Dave V
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A few points to clarify:
I didn't see it, but think it was more of a "skullcap" not a cone hat. It had a depression where he could rest the cone on top with the ball inside. One nod of his head would drop the cone into his hands, a second nod would drop the ball. He described this in the Revelations tape.

The line you quoted about him putting a rather bad routine together in an hour was pretty much what I was going on when I first said "thrown together"

Since Bill was there "in person" with Vernon during a lecture, I still give Bill's account a bit more credence than the one video that you and I saw of a rather rambling old man made years later trying to get his story straight.

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Jonathan Townsend
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Has anyone explored this in context of a chop cup type routine? IE using the chop principle, the spin vanish and the scarf all in one?
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phread
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While not exactly the same thing-swoger did a routine with a small hat in enchanted ball manipulation that I use my small chop cup with since small plastic hats are quite hard to find.

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Josh the Superfluous
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Pinching the cone is kinda like the chop principle, and a scarf is used in the routine. By "the spin vanish" are you referring to a wand spin? Introducing a wand seems a bit cumbersome. Can you spin a cone?
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Jonathan Townsend
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I was thinking about the wand. I saw Vernon do the vanish with a decent sized ball and was impressed.

The chop thing could come when you lift the cone looking for the ball after it vanishes, and after trying to tease it out of the scarf.
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Bill Palmer
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Vernon's standards for a routine are undoubtedly much higher than ours, in most cases. The Ball, Cone and Handkerchief only occupies twelve pages in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. The routine, itself, was basically ignored until Vernon did his $1000 lecture tour. With the exception of Wolfsberger's solid cone routine, most people had nothing at all to do with it.

When Vernon did his routine as performed in the lecture, it was actually fairly simple and straightforward. So, if, as he says on the videos, it was thrown together in Ganson's studio or home, it certainly became polished by the time the lecture tour started.

I think the alchemical explanation of it in the book may have been part of what was "thrown together."

It was actually only about the time of that lecture that the plethora of leather cones began to make their appearance. I even made a few of them for friends of mine, but they were nothing like the ones Presley made. Presley's cones were very stiff, so gripping the ball through the cone was very difficult with them. Also, they were much smaller than what Vernon used.

Vernon used a 2 1/8" ball.
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