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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Hindu vs. Cups and Balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Josh Riel
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I could not find a demo of the effect Hindu Cups. I was hoping someone could tell me if the Hindu cups routine is similar to the regular 3 Cups. With the design of the cups, clearly there would be different routing, I am only curious if the difference is only in the design of the cups.

I apologize that I cannot word this clearer. Thanks for any help.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Bill Palmer
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The Indian style cups and balls routine is normally performed while the operator is seated on the ground. The operator has a bag next to him, from which he extracts the cups at the beginning of the routine. In most routines, more balls are used than in the Western style cups and balls routine.

Indian cups are not normally nested, because of their shape. Also, there are loading techniques that are peculiar to that kind of cup.

The balls move from one cup to another, gather under one cup, increase in size, multiply, increase in size again, multiply some more, and there may be baby chicks involved. It all depends on the operator.

Pete Biro is probably the most knowledgeable authority on this type of cups and balls routine in the US.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
aiki
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Bill,

If the performer is seated on the ground and there audenance is standing around them, how was the loading of the cups performed? Were they using the bag that the cups were in or just from pockets? It really must of been hard using the chicks.
Ray K.

Till we meet again!
Bill Palmer
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The audience was not necessarily standing around him. They would be more likely to have him surrounded on three sides. They were using the bag. They had ample motiviation and misdirection for using the bag.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Dave V
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Here's a picture of the Indian Cups and Balls being performed. I took this an IBM convention in the mid 90's. But I don't recall this being much more than a standard Cups and Balls presentation, just that was in character.

From my angle way off to the side, I saw nothing. The fact that we're standing and he's sitting covers a lot of sins.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Bill Palmer
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That looks like Shankar, Jr.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Dave V
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That's who I had listed on the photo. I'm glad to get some confirmation on it.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Pete Biro
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Shankar Jr. did it the first time (that I saw him) sitting up on a table in the lobby of a hotel. He gave me a set of his cups and I learned some of the work from him. When I do the routine I do an "Impression" of him (high voice and speak in a fake Hindu double talk). He was around 12 or 13 years old when I first met him and his voice was very high and squeaky... but he was amazing with the work.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
RaveMastaE
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I'm not sure if you are a member of Magic Video Depot, if you aren't, definately join. Here ya go:
http://magicvideodepot.com/view.php?a=v&t=5590
Josh Riel
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Well that was reasonably similar to a regular cups routine. (I am a member, although I never thought to look there)

the loads seemed like they needed a uncomfortable palm.

Thanks for the help.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Harry Murphy
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The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
Kevin Gardner
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There is also the Charlie Miller routine as performed by Steve Dacri on his L&L video. Instructions come with the Morrissey set. It is a formal table routine.

The traditional climax to to produce many balls, but I like to use strawberries as my final load.

Posted: Nov 3, 2011 5:05pm
The Viking Magic Hindu set is also very lovely, beautiful wooden cups, I'm sure everyone knows the link but...
http://www.vikingmagic.com/?nd=full&key=589

Personally I like the Pete Biro cups that RNT2 used to sell in silver and copper:
http://petebiro.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

These are excellent quality cups, the copper ones specially can take some abuse. Sometime they come up on eBay as Hindu cups and sometimes as Indian cups. Recently a set sold for an excellent price:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-India-Cups-A......96102889
Gary Kosnitzky
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Quote:
On 2011-11-03 17:05, Kevin Gardner wrote:
The Viking Magic Hindu set is also very lovely, beautiful wooden cups, I'm sure everyone knows the link but...
http://www.vikingmagic.com/?nd=full&key=589

Personally I like the Pete Biro cups that RNT2 used to sell in silver and copper:
http://petebiro.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

These are excellent quality cups, the copper ones specially can take some abuse. Sometime they come up on eBay as Hindu cups and sometimes as Indian cups. Recently a set sold for an excellent price:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-India-Cups-A......96102889


I know your intentions are good but you happen to be severely misinformed.
None of the items you are recommending are even close to being real Hindu Cups.
I have discovered many folks out there who know absolutely nothing about this trick but want to still cash in on it.
They are selling temple offering bowls and calling them Hindu cups.

Just because they are cups does not make them the right cups.

These are the ONLY correct authentic cups being offered today on the market.

http://s1093.photobucket.com/albums/i427/jadoosmagic/

Here is the real work from my book:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7gp1WNRG6c

Only a few more sets left. These are going fast.

$175/set w/wand
Rediscover a lost art.

www.jadoosmagic.com
Kevin Gardner
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Quote:

I know your intentions are good but you happen to be severely misinformed.
None of the items you are recommending are even close to being real Hindu Cups.


Your cups look awesome and the video is excellent.
Bill Palmer
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During the past couple of years, Gary has emerged as the main authority (in the US) on the authentic, traditional Indian cups and balls

Most of what is in my museum that is categorized as such is not actually authentic. Some of this is due to the sources that we have had for information. Eddie Joseph gave some of the real work, but he did a lot of adapting and inevitably corrupted the routine to a certain degree. There were also magic dealers who produced ICLO's (Indian Cup-Like Objects).

Pete Biro did us a big service by bringing us Shankar Jr's routine. Now Gary has brought the real work to us. It is definitely worth a look.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
maharajademagia
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Quote:
On 2011-11-03 17:05, Kevin Gardner wrote:
The Viking Magic Hindu set is also very lovely, beautiful wooden cups, I'm sure everyone knows the link but...
http://www.vikingmagic.com/?nd=full&key=589

Personally I like the Pete Biro cups that RNT2 used to sell in silver and copper:
http://petebiro.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

These are excellent quality cups, the copper ones specially can take some abuse. Sometime they come up on eBay as Hindu cups and sometimes as Indian cups. Recently a set sold for an excellent price:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-India-Cups-A......96102889

Kevin, Viking Magic cups look good. I have not used them so I cannot comment on them.

Pete Biro's cups can be used as Hindu Cups but are not the authentic one.

Gary also has some authentic brass cups and they are excellent only he is too shy to post the pictures here. Gary please post the pictures you sent to me and let the other say the same thing as I did they are excellent authentic and made in India under Gary's supervision. Please reserve one for me right away.
Quote:
On 2011-11-04 01:58, Bill Palmer wrote:
During the past couple of years, Gary has emerged as the main authority (in the US) on the authentic, traditional Indian cups and balls

Most of what is in my museum that is categorized as such is not actually authentic. Some of this is due to the sources that we have had for information. Eddie Joseph gave some of the real work, but he did a lot of adapting and inevitably corrupted the routine to a certain degree. There were also magic dealers who produced ICLO's (Indian Cup-Like Objects).

Pete Biro did us a big service by bringing us Shankar Jr's routine. Now Gary has brought the real work to us. It is definitely worth a look.

Bill you are the authority on Cups and Balls so telling you something is like showing a lamp to the Sun (a Hindu proverb, but please let me differ with you on Eddie Joseph. Thought Mr. Joseph did write about the Hindu Cups and Balls anyone who really knows the stuff knows that his study was not in depth. I have all the books by Eddie Joseph but I am sorry to say I am not at all impressed. Charlie Miller's article in Genii has far more authentic information than Mr. Joseph's books. Having said that, I would also like to add that Mr. Joseph's work has its historical importance which cannot be denied to him, and he did maintain the interest in authentic mother of all tricks the Hindu Cups and Balls. I agree with most of the other things you said.

Gary is doubtlessly the most knowledgeable American on Cups and Balls and that is because he took the trouble of researching and learning from the traditional Indian masters and not the jaduwalas.
Kevin Gardner
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Any truth to the story that Hindu magicians used to use cow bells without the clacker as cups?
Pete Biro
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ELEPHANT BELLS. Actually no offense, but I have seen videos and old photos of Indian magicians using all kinds of cups, offering bowls, small flat tins, whatever works.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
maharajademagia
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Kevin, Pete is right anything can be used, there is no binding on the performer. Even in the USA magicians use Coffee Mugs, Chinese rice balls or transparent cups. Last I had seen were the tops of bicycle bells. But the traditional standard cups are Coconuts cups like Gary has. This is the standard classical shape. This classic cup can be turned in wood which I did for myself but I don't have cups to sell I just made a set for me. Or they can be in Brass or Copper. I have even seen cups in Ivory, but that of course is banned in India now.

Pete Biro, I am sure all of us will join me in requesting to post your Hindu Cups and Balls performance. Pleeeeeeeese. We all want to learn from such an experienced man like you.

All those who would like to see Pete's performance of Hindu Cups and Balls, please second my request.
Harry Murphy
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Back in the day (mid 60s) a sideshow/10-in-one magician, Don Bowles, gave me a set of four "Hindoo" cups and taught me a simple routine which I later found was pretty much as seen on the streets in India at the time.

Back in the mid 70s I spent a short time in India and would seek out the street performers especially the cup workers. Reviewing my old notes I find that I had watched seven (7) different performers over the course of several weeks. None worked with three cups. The standard seemed to be four cups and three performers worked with five cups. I also noted that the “cups” were an assortment of items. Some used a small aluminum bowl without a knob/handle at all, others used the “offering bowl” that Pete uses (and used to sell), and some used the more or less “traditional” modified elephant bell. One had what seemed to be a nice turned, wooden set (four cups). Not one used coconut shells.

By the way the cups Don gave me were made from biscuit cutters with simple, small thread spools screwed on. The balls were fishing corks soaked in food coloring to give then a tint. They worked for the decade I performed this little novelty.

Presently, I’ve a set of offering bowls, a Tayade set from the early 70s, and the wonderful set that Gary is producing. Now to relearn the handling! This will probably be a pretty painful experience since age and arthritis has caught up with me. At least I can sit in a half-lotus position for hours (I don’t bother with the full-lotus).
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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