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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Is Three Card Monte in the street illegal? (out of interest) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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silverhawkins
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Hi all,
I was just wondering because I saw this guy in London doing Three Card Monte in the street, and I wondered if it was actually illegal or not? Presumably only if you let people bet on it?

Ben
Vandy Grift
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It's definately illegal to play the "game" for money.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
silverhawkins
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But technically speaking its no more fixed than any casino or arcade game is it? Ultimately there still is a 1 in 3 chance if it comes down to guessing...
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2006-06-23 13:23, silverhawkins wrote:
But technically speaking its no more fixed than any casino or arcade game is it? Ultimately there still is a 1 in 3 chance if it comes down to guessing...


WRONG!!! The way the three card monte is played on the streets, you have NO chance to win. (once in a while the operator may let the mark get one). But basically you cannot win. They are many ways for the operator and his accomplices to insure that you never win.

Please, and I say this for your own good, if you see that monte mob again. Stay away. Just walk in the other direction.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
silverhawkins
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Ok. well I only walked over and watched out of interest. They all seemed pretty sound, but I'd never have bet. (I don't have the money for a start-I'm a student!)

I was intrigued though.

Ben
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A wise policy not to bet. Whether you have money or not. The monte operator is counting on people believing exactly what you posted above. They want people to believe that the in worst case they have a 1 in 3 chance of guessing the correct card. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you are intrested, there is a TON of material available on the three card monte. The School For Scoundrels store is a good place to start.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
silverhawkins
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Well that's the thing, I always understood, judging by how I have learnt various ways of playing that whilst they won't win (because they're following a card they think is it and through a sleight in the throwing-you've switched it), the three cards stay the same the whole time, just in different orders.

All the techniques I have read about indicate that to be the way, so do the street artists get rid of the winning card all the time?
Dave V
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Silverhawkins,
It's a good thing you didn't have any money. If you did, you wouldn't have it for long. Most operators don't care for spectators and if they had someone on the hook they would have "closed the gates" to keep you away from the table.

Enjoy the memory of watching and walking away intact.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Vandy Grift
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The three cards don't change. There is always one money card and two others. But things are not always what they seem. I don't want to say anymore.

You should check out some of the things out there about the game. I won't say anymore because there are secret techniques that shouldn't be exposed here and they aren't mine to give away anyhow. But it's all pretty much out there. Seek and Ye shall find.

And Have Fun! I love that game.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
silverking
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Important to remember that there's a lot more going on with a typical Monte mob than just throwing the cards.
In a nutshell, nothing is what it seems to be for the sucker reaching for his wallet.
wolfsong
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And not everyone is who they seem to be for that matter!
Steve V
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Don't listen to these guys kid, they are trying to salvage their careers. The secret of monte is people THINK there is a switch, there isn't, and the pigions follow the wrong card when they should have followed the right card which didn't go wrong in the middle. Get your roll and go play 'em!
Steve V
silverhawkins
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Well the way I've done it myself in the past is to make a switch, if not two, so I think they are on the right lines. Of course there always is the likelihood of a bluff (which I guess is what you are suggesting), but that'll probably depend on the people playing.

Thanks for all your thoughts anyway. Its interesting to see the differences in opinion!
silverking
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There are only two types of folks at a street monte.

Hustlers, and suckers.
Be sure you know which one you are before you wander near any more monte mobs.
There are no spectators at a street monte, for long anyway.

(BTW, nobody in this thread had a difference of opinion. That you thought they did is a bit of a worry....So be sure to keep your pin money in your wallet and keep walking!)
Neil_Brown
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Quote:
I wondered if it was actually illegal or not?

This is just my guess - I'm not expert in this area, so don't rely on my comments - not legal advice Smile. Basically, the Gambling Act 2005 controls gambling and gaming in England and Wales, and I'd suggest that the three card monte would class as "gaming" - which is means "playing a game of chance for a prize", with "game of chance being defined as "(i) a game that involves both an element of chance and an element of skill, (ii) a game that involves an element of chance that can be eliminated by superlative skill, and (iii) a game that is presented as involving an element of chance, but (b) does not include a sport."

s33 of the Gambling Act 2005 sets out the main offence, provision of facilities for gambling. Thus, unless the performer holds a licence, or else falls under one of the exceptions, chances are it is illegal. I haven't read through all the exceptions, but, if you are interested, the Act is written in reasonably plain English.

It would be an interesting argument if the perfomer were to suggest that it did not fall under the definition of "gaming", but was really a theatrical performance, whereby the "punter" was just playing along, having essentially paid their "hat" up front, but, I can't see this persuading a magistrate / judge, if I am honest.

Apologies if I've bored you Smile
silverking
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Different countries gaming acts usually apply only to games of chance.
The street monte is an orchestrated con designed to rip you off, and definitely not a game of chance.

It's a bunco squad crime as opposed to a simple gaming law violation.
silverhawkins
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Did they learn like us? learning sleights and performance as magicians originally, or are they just con men...basically...?
Jaz
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It don't matter if they learned as magicians or not.
The tosser learned the game to take you're money.
NJJ
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The tosser could have learnt as a magician does but the shills would have learnt on the job. There are up to half a dozen people involved in the monte scam. The sleight of hand is only one small part.

Even if you notice the sleight of hand, spot the pyschology and talk your way past the patter and outs, there is still half a dozen guys who can beat the snot out of you.
silverking
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Silverhawkins:
Read Nicholas J's post a few times and try to understand what he's saying, there's wisdom to be had from his words.
It's not about magicians and sleight of hand at all, and yes..they're all con men.

(To speed things up a bit for you, he's saying you're screwed from the get go if you step up to a street monte, no matter what you've read or think you know about it).

Having said that, please do enjoy reading about it, talking here on the Café about it, and studying the history of it on web sites like Whit Hayden's "School for Scoundrels".

It's an amazingly interesting topic to study.

If you're really wanting to know more, get a hold of "Forty Years a Gambler on the Mississippi" by George Devol.
Devol was the King of the Riverboat Gamblers, and you'll get some idea of where the Monte came from, and what it's really all about from this book.
If you like reading this book, there's many more that will allow you to truly understand the street Monte to follow.

But don't for a minute think that you can play it.

BTW, when Steve V. said, "Get your roll and go play 'em!" the correct answer from you was, "not on your life."
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