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Pricholas New user 37 Posts |
Hi, I'd like to know what is the best bird to get for dove work (do not say a dove), are there any differences between other birds which you could get, in terms of intelligence, co-operation, ability etc. (e.g. parrot?)?
Secondly, where can I get them from in the UK? I have not managed to find any pet shops which sell birds for magicians (not that I have really looked much). Thanks |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Best is in the eye of the performer. There are ring-necks, pied, java, silkies and a few other doves. All of which perform fine. It's a matter of choice and how much time you have to spend with them. There are several topics in this forum that list places in the UK to get birds. Here's one of them:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......13&5 Doves are different from parrots. Most dove effects won't work for parrots only because of their size.
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Pricholas New user 37 Posts |
What is the difference between ring-necks, pied, java and silkies etc.? Do you have any links?
Cheers |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Ring-necks and Java look basically the same except the Java dove which originally came from Java, are a little smaller. It's easier to get white ring-necks that Java's as well. Pied's are a genetic mix between white and brown ring-necks and are somewhat spotted in color. They can be brown and white, grey and white, even light blue and white. Silkies are specially bred with a more ruffled feather look and they do not fly. There is also a variety called Diamond. These are very small almost like parakeets and are somewhat blue and black.
Best way to find information about the different varieties is to do a web search. you could also try: http://www.strombergschickens.com/stock/doves.htm http://www.doveline.com/
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Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
As always, Dave, great info and links!
I have used silkies and they are wonderful but look like they are having a bad hair day! The diamond doves are nervous and flighty. The brown ring-neck doves seem wilder than the white Java doves even though I know they are supposed to be the same. The pied are a bit more flighty than the white Java doves. My vote is with the White Java dove and/or the Silkies. A parrot will chew its way out of a h****ss and magically appear too soon. But the parrot is really easy to train to fly back. Pricholas, sounds like you cannot find doves in the UK. Have you checked with other magicians? I could not find any in Germany and had to bring some in. Few magicians use them here. If you can give a pair of doves a great home (and treat them as pets and not props) I can breed you a sweet pair of White Jave doves if you want to take the tunnel and drive over to my studio in Germany. I do not know what the restrictions are for entering the UK with birds. You would need to check on this. (I know the restrictions for importing dogs and cats are really tough.) Let me know.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Morningstar, you've described the breeds perfectly. I have a few brown ringnecks that just refuse to be trained. All they want to do is eat and .....I've had and still have a few pied and they do take a lot more work than the java or white ringnecks.
There's another breed but I can't remember the name. I want to say "rollers" but I'm not sure. Anyway, they don't fly at all but when you put them down on a flat surface, they roll like balls. I've only seen them once.
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Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
Thank you, Dave. I have always noticed a distinct temperment with certain breeds of doves. You are right about the rollers. My father and I raised racing pigeons and we had a few in the loft. These birds would do exactly that - roll! The roll was inspired by a loud noise, such as a clap of hands. I wonder if this rolling is an evolutionary survival trait, similar to the possum sulling or "fainting" and the armidillo rolling into a ball when alarmed.
Many bird folk claim the rolling of these pigeons is a form of a seizure. I always doubted this explanation, but it could be possible. Some sezures can be initiated with external stimuli such as flashing lights or possibly even noise. I remember our rollers having an odd configuration of neck feathers. They were certainly interesting birds.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Pricholas New user 37 Posts |
Which is the best dove?
I'm guessing Java or white ring-necks are? Which is the easiest to manipulate (the most tame, obedient and intelligent)? Friendliest? |
Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
I would cast my vote for the White Java dove.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Intelligence and doves are two different things. Taming comes from work and practice regardless of the breed. With taming comes "obedience" if that even exists in dove magic.
I've never used Java doves so I'd go along with Morningstar's experience.
Where the magic begins
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Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
I apologize for the confusion, Dave. The Java Dove is the same one magicians use. I was taught this name by a bird breeder when I requested magic doves and asked for a "white dove". Some breeders call them peace doves or white ring-necks.
The dove breeder told me I wanted a "Java dove". He told me an interesting story about the Java Dove being a white mutation of the ring-neck and not an albino. The Java Dove was long believed to be a separate species from the ring-neck. Here is a link: http://animal-world.com/encyclo/birds/do......dove.php This is a good link for dove keepers. This link talks about cages, health, food and has many links to other informative sites. Enjoy! PS: I totally agree with you on taming and training. This does take work and practice. The Java doves tame down very fast with gentle repeat handling and love. I find the flyback training amazingly easy with parrots, but it is truly the dedicated magician who is able to teach a dove to do a flyback.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
No confusion on my part, Morningstar. Most people refer to Java's and ringnecks as two totally different birds when are they really just mutations. That's a great web site. I don't think I've ever seen that one. Thanks
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Pricholas New user 37 Posts |
Excellant website, your information has been invaluable.
I will certainly get a java when I have read enough about them (and I have the proper equipment, time and money etc.) Thank you |
Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
Great, Pricholas. Got your PM, too. With this philosophy you will do well with your birds. Please let me know if you have any questions. Dave Scribner and Bob Sanders are quite the bird experts. I know they would also be happy to answer any future questions.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Pricholas New user 37 Posts |
Can doves do parrot tricks? Such as waving, moving objects and lying on their backs on cue? Or are doves too dumb!
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
We kid a lot about it, but doves are not dumb. They learn through repitition but they are not prone to learning tricks such as you mention. Some magicians turn their doves upside onto their backs and let the head hang. This temporarily paralyzes the bird and I hate the effect. Other than that, I wouldn't hold out much hope of teaching a dove to move objects and such. If you're looking for a small bird to do parrot tricks, you might want to check out parralots. They are a special bred parrot that is very small, about the size of a dove or smaller. I don't know anyone who uses them but it's a possibility.
Where the magic begins
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