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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Controlled dice throws (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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5ggg
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Lol, I do not wish to wake the dragon Smile. You guys should be able to agree on somethings, right?
Mr. Bones
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Actually, Cag and I agree on quite a few things.

We occasionally disagree with each other on issues of decorum, but beyond that - we're usually within a few pages of each other on the more important subject matter.
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5ggg
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See? we can all get along
Cagliostro
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Here I an oldie post with a common argument:

Quote:
On Jul 4, 2006, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-07-04 19:53, Dannydoyle wrote:

I do see your point BUT at some point, if you don't have actual experience your lacking something. At some point you CAN gain that ground yes, I agree. Forte I guess doesn't do mucks under fire. Fine. I am not saying it discredits him immediately but it does taint his knowledge some.

I look at it like a teacher of law who has never been in a courtroom but will teach how to be in a courtroom. How can he do it? It is done a lot, but to me it lacks something.
NOTHING to disrespect anyone without experience, just saying goes a lot further than ONLY book knowledge. I said it before. BUT at some point, it helps to actually know from experience as well as books.


Steve learned from the best hold-out men alive in his younger years and can perform the mucks better than anyone. Moreover, he knows the how and when to use such moves, if he wanted to. I'd say Steve is unquestionably an expert on the subject of mucking, despite never actually using it. I don't know how that "taints" it at all, aside from the fact that he never employed the most risky form of cheating in his playing days.


We can argue the lack of direct experience under fire ad nausea. However, without direct experience one does not know what is practical or not, nor does one know what works and doesn't, it advantages, disadvantages, weakness, strengths and so on.

While it is true Forte is very knowledgeable and exquisite card table manipulator, I have watched him perform many mucks. They all look beautiful but many would not stand up under fire. They leak from too many angles. For example, on his Gambling Invisible Thieves video demo, playing two hands, although the demo looks beautiful and very impressive, it would not stand up in a casino environment, even without camera surveillance. It is exposed from too many angles and is a demo, nothing more.

Those who have never been there, at least under serious situations, have no clue what can and will happen without experience. They do not even know know if their hands would work effectively under fire to actually do the move in question.

Suffice it to say, those who have never been there feel experience does not matter, just performing a move in isolation well is all that counts.

Those who have been there will say it matters one hell of a lot, that is if you want to be successful under fire and actually get it on. They probably have some bruises to show for their experience under fire or at least some real horror stories.
tommy
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Well, as I recall, the Steve Fortes Gambling Invisible Thieves video states it is for amateur home game protection, as opposed professional game protection and so saying that it would not stand up in a casino environment seems to be a straw man argument. What moves would stand up to a casino environment?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2020, tommy wrote:
Well, as I recall, the Steve Fortes Gambling Invisible Thieves video states it is for amateur home game protection, as opposed professional game protection and so saying that it would not stand up in a casino environment seems to be a straw man argument. What moves would stand up to a casino environment?


Your observation is incorrect here. Gambling Invisible Thieves is a separate video demo from the Gambling Protection Series but included as an extra bonus. It is a demonstration, filmed in a casino environment on a regulation blackjack table designed to show what playing a two hand muck/gypsy combination can be done in a casino environment. Since it can be view by outside men and surveillance from different angles in an open casino environment, it leaks badly from multiple angles.
tommy
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Sorry Cag, my mistake.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dicetricks
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Cag wrote that the booklet How to control fair dice by the KC Card Co is the best book written on the subject.

If Cag is still around it would be interesting why he has that viewpoint?

Are there better illustrations in the book that assist you in learning to replicate the tosses described in the book?

Funny how the few tosses out there are all the same but changed their names throughout the years to create new interest.

Scarne's book is pretty good.


Yuri had a toss from the end of the table with a flick of the wrist which was his favorite method of tossing the dice.

Forte's GPS videos are great but the interesting thing is that another person is demonstrating the pad roll which in my books is the closest thing you can get away with in a casino if properly disguised. Forward spin eliminates the transition of the spin from backwards to forwards which IMHO is key.

Is there anyone here that can prove they can do that shot? I can provide proof by replicating it the old fashioned way they did it in the military.

I agree with Jason that eliminating bounce roll and loft puts you miles ahead but might not stand up in a casino environment. Not hitting the back wall is a perfect example of having the grift to get the job done and bring back the money.

Doc I sent you videos to the email you provided a long time ago but never heard back from you. Could you pm me please.
iamslow
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Most people here don't even know how to play craps, let alone be able to say what works and what doesn't in a casino environment... Smile


Smile
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
tommy
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I played craps at the Rainbow casino Birmingham once upon a time: I asked the croupier for a leaflet on how to play, I glanced at the leaflet that he gave me for a moment and I placed £100 on the Pass line and won, let it ride and won again and as I picked up my winnings the croup said: “See Sir, it’s easy isn’t it?”

The Rainbow casino no longer has a craps table nor poker. Craps is not normally played in casinos here in England and I can only recall seeing it played at two other casinos here: the Vic and the Sportsman in London.

I have seen a craps table at an illegal joint but I have never seen a street craps game over here.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
gregg webb
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Steve shows the way he made the table he demonstrates the whip shot on, etc. He even throws the dice over a rope strung and it works. He's eliminating the amount of bounce by making a home made table, and the end doesn't have the bounce that a casino has. So it implies a home or back-room game, not a casino game, I guess.
I remember the blanket roll, used in the service a lot and axel-rolls which also work good on rugs or blankets. I'm just remembering what I saw on the tape. There was great dice cup moves, etc.
Gamblingman007
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2021, Dicetricks wrote:
Cag wrote that the booklet How to control fair dice by the KC Card Co is the best book written on the subject.

If Cag is still around it would be interesting why he has that viewpoint?

Are there better illustrations in the book that assist you in learning to replicate the tosses described in the book?

Funny how the few tosses out there are all the same but changed their names throughout the years to create new interest.

Scarne's book is pretty good.


Yuri had a toss from the end of the table with a flick of the wrist which was his favorite method of tossing the dice.

Forte's GPS videos are great but the interesting thing is that another person is demonstrating the pad roll which in my books is the closest thing you can get away with in a casino if properly disguised. Forward spin eliminates the transition of the spin from backwards to forwards which IMHO is key.

Is there anyone here that can prove they can do that shot? I can provide proof by replicating it the old fashioned way they did it in the military.

I agree with Jason that eliminating bounce roll and loft puts you miles ahead but might not stand up in a casino environment. Not hitting the back wall is a perfect example of having the grift to get the job done and bring back the money.

Doc I sent you videos to the email you provided a long time ago but never heard back from you. Could you pm me please.


I’m sorry but I never got the videos that you said that you sent to me.
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