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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Favorite poker demonstration (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jay Elf
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Thanks Tom.
I'll check it up.
tomcards
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Ted,

Thanks for your kind words.


Tom
Dennis Loomis
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Simon Aronson has not one but several Poker demonstrations built into the Aronson Stack. Earlier someone mentioned one of these (any poker hand called for dealt) but there are many others to choose from. They are all explained in the book "Bound to Please." Simon built a great bridge deal into the stack as well. While you may not use it often, when you run into a bridge player this is excellent. And, it's not hard and you don't need to know much about bridge to use it. After the stack was built, someone discovered a fine black jack demo you can do, and Simon tips that in Bound to Please as well.

Very recently, Sterling Dare came up with a good Texas Hold'em poker deal that you can do with the Aronson Stack. Thanks to Mr. Dare's generosity, that one is explained on my web site. (URL below, then click on the mem-deck area.) Also on my site and duplicated on Simon's site are my adjustments (I hesitate to say improvements) to Simons killer three phase poker routine.


If you want to do Poker deals, the Aronson Stack is your one-stop shopping center.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
The Amazing Noobini
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Very interesting to learn about the other Aronson Poker deals. There is only one on the DVD I have (Routine Maintenence on Sessions With Simon 3).

The problem with a Poker deal where every hand is great is that it's just too impressive. It doesn't seem believable that you shuffled the deck into that.

I still like the Lennart Green Poker deal which is similar, mostly because his handling of the cards is so incredibly disarming. So instead of doing Routine Maintenence which retains the stack order, I think a great alternative would be to use the Aronson Stack (if you already happen to know it, that is) with a Green'ish reveal of letting the spectator first choose which hand should be the great one and let them concentrate on that until the comic escalation follows.

Not having to retain the entire deck order will allow fair shuffling of half of the deck and it can follow several other stack effects which will make it seem more impressive than simply pulling out a new deck and shuffling it a couple of times and then deal the hands.

Now I will have to check out this Three Phase Poker routine!
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
churken
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I want to mention that Dennis Loomis has taken the three phase Aronson Poker Demonstration to another level. It is great. Look for it on his site.
The Amazing Noobini
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Quote:
On 2007-07-11 14:23, churken wrote:
I want to mention that Dennis Loomis has taken the three phase Aronson Poker Demonstration to another level. It is great. Look for it on his site.


Sounds great, but I need to read the original version in the book first, right?
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Dennis Loomis
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To Noobini,
Yes, you'll want to have the Bound to Please Book handy, although you're welcome to visit my site (Or Simon's) and check it out anyway. You may get something from it. I've often said that having this one routine in my repertoire makes memorizing the Aronson Stack worth while. But, in fact, you really don't have to memorize the stack to do this routine. You will need to have the deck set up in Aronson order, and you'll need to start at the right place. A couple of things are facilitated if you have the stack memorized, but you don't really have to.

As to the "Too Perfect" poker deal. The final phase of Aronson's Routine is exactly that. It would never fly at a real poker session. However, I think my patter turns it into an advantage as a demonstration. This is a three phase routine and as I'm false shuffling the cards before doing the last phase, I say: of course, in poker, it's no good to have the only decent hand. There just won't be any money to speak of in the pot. So, you need to give some of the other players good hands, too. What I'm going to do would certainly never happen in a real poker game, and if it did the dealer would probably be shot. But for the fun of it, here's what just might happen at that Saturday night poker game where five players are playing draw poker. And then you deal five hands. Two guys get full houses, one with a draw and one on the deal. One guy gets four of a kind, another opponent gets a flush and you demonstrate how you cheat on his behalf and make it a straight flush. You, of course, win by getting a higher straight flush. (The Royal.)

The first part of the demo is a stud poker deal, then you do the ten-card poker demonstration. (You can do as many phases as you like. I think Harry Lorayne does about twenty. No... really.) And the last phase is the draw poker deal. Of course, you can do any of these as a stand-alone effect. This routine does destroy the stack, but it's so strong, it's worth it. And, you can do the MANY other tricks possible with the stack before you do this. (Ones which don't destroy the stack.) After three or four different effects during which the deck is shuffled several times, small packets are shuffled, etc., no one can possibly think that the full deck is stacked for this demonstration... but it is.

Thanks for your kind words, Churken. I honestly think that most of the credit goes to Simon for the original routine. My additions are worthwhile, but I was standing on his shoulders. (And he was standing on the shoulders of so many other magicians who created the various little bits and pieces which he combined into this routine and a full deck stack.)

Dennis Loomis
P.S. Simon has invented a LOT of card magic. Much of it doesn't even use his stack. When he shot the DVD set, he just couldn't do everything. He had to pick and choose, and he chose to just do one poker routine. He could have done a whole DVD of nothing but poker deals. Maybe he will some day.
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The Amazing Noobini
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Great post Loomis! Sounds very tempting this. I guess I simply have to order Bound To Please and take it from there. (I have realized that I'll never be able to finish one book before skipping to the next anyway. Probably just as well to follow wherever my curiosity and the forum threads take me.)

BTW, by "too perfect" I didn't mean that it wouldn't fly at a real poker session, which of course it wouldn't. I meant that you sort of do very little preparation and then have a ton of good poker hands all exposed at once. Too much result over too quickly after very little shuffling action. The Lennart Green version has a nice surreal side to it since he drops half of the cards and it is clear to anyone that what they are seeing is impossible.

But for those of us who want to do a strong Poker deal without simply copying Green's style, a three step version sounds like it could be more paced way to go.

Actually, one of the best Poker deals in my opinion is simply taking a shuffled deck, culling a hand to the top while talking and then faro-stacking it for a simple game in which a chosen player has the only good hand. It feels strong perhaps because it actually is real without any setup. And it seems more probable since there is only one prepared hand. But that too is over a bit too quickly. It ends before it really gets to be a proper magic trick.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Dennis Loomis
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Thanks, Noobini. I suppose there is no "proper" approach to a book of magic tricks. I have purchased a full book just because a routine in it was recommended to me and I wanted to check it out. Some times, the book has languished on my bookshelf for quite a time before I went back to it and discovered the many other gems hidden within. We all enjoy learning about magic and I "play" with a lot of tricks. It's fun. I may do them for a few friends or at the magic club, but not very many of them make it into my actual performing repertoire. When someone hires me, I generally stick to the tried and true material which I know I can't screw up, which will get a good response, and which has gotten me repeat bookings in the past. There are things that I do only rarely, like the bridge deal with the Aronson stack. But, knowing it's there, and just waiting until I happen to discover that a spectator is a bridge player makes it worthwhile knowing.

Do I recommend that you buy Bound to Please? Absolutely. I've got a pretty good price on it, but you can probably get it from your local magic shop, and certainly from any number of dealers. You can buy it directly from Simon. There's a ton of great stuff in it, and it certainly is the logical jumping off point for anyone that wants to begin working with the Aronson Stack.

And yes, I agree with your clarified explanation of the "too perfect" effect. I would never, ever, just take out a deck of cards and do the wonderful Aronson Draw Poker deal. (Except for another magician that just wanted to see it.) You have to work with the deck in play. False shuffle it from time to time. Do other tricks during which spectators get to mix or shuffle packets or the whole deck. Remember a single spectators riffle shuffle can be returned to full deck order right in front of the spectators. (See Eric Mead's Tangled Web book.) And there is no more convincing shuffle than letting a spectator shuffle the cards themselves. Then, if the circumstances are right, and with the spectators just knowing in their bones that the deck is completely mixed up, you do the Poker Deal. I guarantee that the spectators will credit you with great skill. When in fact, you're just pretty sneaky.

I truly admire Lennart Green, and I consider much of his stuff to be out of my league. And his Poker deal is truly a thing of beauty. You're right about how dropping the cards is a wonderful throw off. And you will have made a fine selection if you choose to learn it. No doubt. As with all magic, you must choose good material and material which fits you. Do things that you like and which impressed you when you first saw then, and it helps to motivate the practice time necessary to get them into your repertoire. But, first really investigate the various possibilities that you have. With Poker deals (and most card routines) there are just tons of possibilities. But look at, study, and work through several ones that are highly recommended before you settle on one. Better yet, use elements of several routines and put them together to suit yourself. While I do Simon's Three Phase Poker Deal as my main poker deal, I don't do it exactly as Simon created it. Churken liked my changes... which is nice to hear, but you may not. Simon liked them enough to seek my permission to put them on his site, but I'll bet a lot of money that Simon still does it as he originally created it. It fits him and that's what counts.

Best to all. I'm going to get to spend the better part of Saturday watching Boris Wild shoot his new DVD at L & L. Over fifty years in magic, and I still get excited about watching magic.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
edh
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Dennis, you have good stuff on your website. I would have to interject here and say that Nick Pudar also has great stuff on his website. The combination of your website, Nicks blog site, and Aronson's website is more than enough to get the mem-deck worker on his way.

All are great websites. If you are truly interested in doing this type of work then this is where I would begin.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Nick Pudar
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Edh,
I appreciate the kind words about my blog. It is keeping me busy and my mind churning.

I might add to the Poker discussion that my StackView software can be quite helpful in exploring Poker deals. There is quite a bit flexibility built in. If you've played with it in earlier versions of the software, take a look at version 5.0. You can have up to 10 hands dealt, and you can monitor discards, etc.

I have to agree with everything Dennis has written in this thread. He is a great contributor here at the Magic Café.

The mention of Lennart Green reminded me of a fun experience I had with him a couple of years ago. He was performing at a conference in Monterey, California that I was attending (he did his FISM act -- outstanding!). I contacted him prior to the conference and arranged to meet him. There was a reception at the Monterey Aquarium the first night of the conference. As I was wandering around, I noticed Lennart sitting by himself on a bench, sipping some wine. I introduced myself, and we started sharing magic effects. It was quite exciting for me to watch his incredible skills. (His in-hand false shuffle is unbeleivable.) I learned that his memorized deck is "new deck order" -- his ability to flail with the cards and false shuffle, removes any thoughts of prearrangement. After a while, a few people noticed that we were doing card tricks, and a group formed. Lennart performed some amazing stuff. From his prearranged deck, he was producing named cards. After a few of those, he offered his deck to a young woman to shuffle the deck. Obviously (to me), he was transitioning to a new effect. The woman was a bit embarrased, and said that she did not know how to shuffle cards. Lennart said that that was fine -- just hand the deck to someone else to shuffle. She handed the deck to me! Lennart and I exchanged a very quick look, and I did a few false shuffles. When I handed Lennart the deck, he immediately went back into the "location of any named card" -- as far as the rest of the spectators were concerned, having someone else in the audience shuffle the cards was part of the escalation of the effect. People were completely blown away. Lennart and I had a very nice chuckle later about the serendipitous outcome. Over the next three days, I had several other opportunities to spend some time sessioning with Lennart. It was a great experience. Lennart is a very gifted and generous magician -- a true gentleman.
Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
www.stackview.com Version 5.0 is available!
The Amazing Noobini
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Great story, Nick! It reads like a scene in a movie.

Evidently, in the world of great artists, people simply look each other up. Like Bob Dylan simply ringin Frank Zappa's doorbell one day. This sort of thing doesn't happen to the rest of us. Smile

Funny about the new deck order. I wonder though if he remembers those other prearranged half and full deck orders or if he sets them up from a notebook. Or if you do with yours.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Dennis Loomis
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Thanks to edh and to Nick Pudar for their kind words. Nick's site is a "must see" for all card magicians... NO... make that all magicians. Nick's a great thinker and was kind enough to share one of his routines for me to use on my web site. His Stack View program is incredibly helpful.

For people getting into memory work, I also recommend Scott Cram's wonderful web site.

To Noobini: I've found big name magicians to be easily approachable and at many conventions if you just walk up and say hello and ask a polite question they will probably be more than happy to chat with you. I remember being at a convention one time and a couple of young magicians walked up to me and asked if I could help them with the "Top Change." I told them that my top change was not great but that right in the room was a magician that did one of the best top changes in the world. They asked who I meant and I pointed to another table and said: the guy with the goatee, right there. They said "Harry Blackstone, Jr.?" I said yes. They were afraid to approach him, so I took them over to his table. (I had known Harry and Gay quite well for some time because they always attended the Abbott Magic Get-Togethers and so did I.) I introduced them to Harry and told him they were interested in learning a Top change. Harry immediately whipped out a deck of cards and started showing them the move. I returned to my table and the folks I was with. A half hour later I looked over at Harry's Table and they were still at it! Harry's meal was probably getting cold, but he sincerely wanted to help these kids.

I recall when I was a very young magician visiting relatives in Southern California. I was a fan of Mark Wilson and his Saturday morning TV show was on every week. I really wanted to attend a taping, so I had some phone numbers and I called his offices. I told the lady that answered the phone that I was a visiting magician and a fan. She said: hold on a minute. Shortly, Mark Wilson himself came on the line. He explained that they were not taping that week, but he appreciated my call. He told me where all the good magic shops were, and where to go to see magic. (Disneyland had the Main Street magic shop and a strolling magician.) He also called the Magic Castle and arranged for me to get in for the Sunday Brunch and the show that followed.

Magicians are, for the most part, wonderfully friendly people. Don't hesitate to approach even the "stars." I think you'll find them polite and willing to be helpful and give you a little time. Maybe you'll have a couple of stories like these to tell if you do.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
dafin77
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"For people getting into memory work, I also recommend Scott Cram's wonderful web site."

Hi Dennis. Where do I find this website?
David Finkelstein
dafin77@hotmail.com
Dennis Loomis
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To dafin77,
I haven't been back to this thread for a few days, so I apologize for the delay. Here's the link:
http://members.cox.net/beagenius/


Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
neoepicurus
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Dennis,
I've read the articles in the memorized deck area of your site, but can't find one specifically on a poker demonstration. Can you provide a link?
Dennis Loomis
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Go to my site. (Link is in the sig file below.)

Click on the Memorized Deck Area.

Scroll down to Article 22 "Texas Hold-em"

Dennis Loomis

Thanks for asking. Sterling Dare has some new work on Texas Hold-em which he has shared with me. Maybe I can get him to allow me to add it to my Web Site. However, be warned, it's based on the Aronson Stack and you also have to be able to do a perfect faro.
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neoepicurus
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Thanks Dennis (and Sterling Dare).
On a related note, it's so incredible that there are so many people analyzing and sharing different approaches to the same problem and, in this case, with the same device (memorized stack)...
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