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RodfromHodge New user Hodge, LA 2 Posts |
Is it the tricks he knows, or how he presents them? I was thinking about this question last night, and seeing as how I'm fairly new to performing magic, I figure it's a good question to ask. I appreciate the help. God Bless.
peace.love.jazz. Hodge |
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
It is all about presentation.You can be just passable at the technique and still make a good impression if you know how to make a good presentation.
Good Luck. You can do a show like Ballentine, where all the tricks fail, but if the presentation is good, the show will be good. Bob |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
It's definitely how the tricks are presented.
For instance, a good magician who does bizarre magic can build a an interesting tale around the simplest of effects and props used. A comedic mage can instill humor into their effects and get the audiance roaring with laughter. It really is about presentation and entertaiment. Don't get me wrong. I still do straight forward presentations where I simply say things like, "If you watch carefully you can almost see the coin jump from on hand to the other. Watch!" followed by, "If one can jump maybe another will." Best to ya, |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Wellington brings up good points and he also brings up something that I find totally fascinating and that I have discussed elsewhere in this forum. IS the Great Ballantine AS the Great Ballantine a magician? He is a brilliant and superlative entertainer, but is he a 'magician' or is he an entertainer that uses a cloak of magic props for his act?
Think about this: If you have a magic act in which there are NO effects, no outcomes that could be called magical....are you a magician in the sense that Harry Blackstone Sr or Jr. for that matter was a magician? Here try this analogy: What if you had a musician who played the spoons, but he couldn't keep time, couldn't produce anything identifiable as music. Would you call him a musician? What if you had a comic who had no humor in his show. Whose jokes were so bad folks wouldn't even groan. Would you call him a comic? See the problem I have with calling the act that is The Great Ballantine a magic act is that no magic is performed. He's a comsummate comedy artist. No problem there. But, is it magic? If it is then why? Part of the problem in calling Ballantine a magician is that in an odd way it sets the bar for being a magician kind of low. If all it takes to be a magician is to not produce anything that is magical and do it in an entertaining manner then you have divorced the craft of magic from the 'effect' of the magic routines. The suggestion is offered that Ballantine is a 'kind' of magician. A sort of niche magician. Magic is BIG and offers a place for anyone. But, let's follow that to it's logical conclusion: Guy comes on stage and plays a guitar in some fabulous new manner. Just ignites the audience and at the end says, "I hope you like my magic act." Advertises himself as the Music Magician and claims the exact same status as Chriss Angel. How is that different from Ballantine? Neither one produces ANY magic at all and both claim to be magicians. I think it's important to tighten up the definition of exactly what a magician is. Both for our sake as performers and the sake of those to whom we want to market out product to. But, mainly I just find the whole subject really interesting. Best,
Brad Burt
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djrdjr Loyal user Austin, TX 226 Posts |
Ballantine is a comic. Calling himself a magician is his schtick.
There are comics who claim to be musicians, who walk onstage with a guitar but never play a note. It's schtick. Think Henny Youngman and Jack Benny with their violins (and thanks for making me feel REALLY old). Comics take license to present themselves in different guises to service their characters. In much the way the audience at a Henny Youngman or Jack Benny appearance would not rave about the musician they just saw, I don't think anyone who walked away from a Ballantine performance ever told their friends what a great magician they just saw. Rather, they would likely talk about the hilarious comic. Nobody who enjoys "Larry the Cable Guy" thinks of him as an actual video technician (and I'm not sure the cable industry is pushing for tightening up the definition of a cable installer). :) |
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
Skills, personality, drive, knowledge and a passion for magic.
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-07-10 18:44, djrdjr wrote: I disagree, as does the Magicians Hall of Fame. "He's one of a kind, the incomparable Carl "The Amazing" Ballantine, the only magician who never did a trick. Actually, in his early career, he did a manipulation act, but, as Carl says, "when I saw Dick Cardini do his act, I threw away my show. I knew I could never be as good as Dick, so I stopped with the real magic. On a road trip, doing his standard magic act, and getting mild reactions, he came up with the idea to change his name, and looking up, while on the phone with his agent, he spotted a bottle of Ballantine Whiskey and siad, "the name is Ballantine. The world's greatest magician". And so, a legend was born. Written by Steve Dacri" Bob |
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djrdjr Loyal user Austin, TX 226 Posts |
Bob: I meant no disrespect to Ballantine. I am a HUGE fan.
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Sherman Malachi New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-07-10 15:22, RodfromHodge wrote: I believe that what makes a good magician is a combination of skill, theoretical understanding (of methods and misdirection - in a complete sense), careful thinking, and a constant desire to express the magic that comes from your heart. But to become a great magician is another level: a great magician puts his understanding to the test and reacts on demand - his abilities has become ONE and it has become second nature.
Sherman Malachi
Improve your card magic at www.powerfulcardmagic.com/blog |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
The ability to consistantly provide entertaining presentations. Read that sentance carefully a few times. That's what being a magician is all about. Every word in that sentance is crutial, and the aquisition of each meaning very important. That's what makes a good magician.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
I vote for presentation. I've seen great effects ruined and crummy effects elevated to greatness, just through presentation.
Drew, I think you left out a crucial word: The ability to consistently provide entertaining "magical" presentations. As for the Balentine conversation. It's kind of like the Harlem Globetrotters. Not great basketball, but great basketball themed entertainment.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Yeah, I'll go with that. What about the rest of it? I feel like the particular words should each be addressed by someone wishing to be a good magician.
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RodfromHodge New user Hodge, LA 2 Posts |
Wow. These are great responses. Thanks Jack for that awesome statement. I think that statement can be used in any form of entertainment. I appreciate the help. Keep it coming!!
peace.love.jazz. Hodge |
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ChristopherM Special user UK 844 Posts |
On top of engaging presentation skills (1st), technical proficiency (2nd) for me it's also all about respect. That includes respect for audience volunteers - the most important skill of people management; we have to make them feel valued and should never be rude to anyone helping us (think how the stereotypical, brash, crude magician is perceived....). It also includes respect for props - sloppy handling, and cheap, worn-out props make for a poor show. It also means a respect for other magicians - in particular, those who conceived/created/published the tricks that we perform.
Cheers Chris |
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doulos New user Fort Worth, TX 61 Posts |
Well so far all comments lean toward presentation. Granted that you need this coupled with the technical skill. It all boils down to direction, misdirection, and the skill in the manipulation of the two. Take a very simple effect, package it with a great presentation, and you will have someone scratching their head for years about it.
Doulos |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
I've thought about this quite a bit over 33 years and when all is said and done I think that if you have the best rehearsed, best techniqued guy in front of you and he has no passion for what he's doing....I'll take a pass. Give me a magician who is ok, but obviously LOVES magic and loves what he's doing. Combine both wonderful technique and presentation with a serious love and passion for magic and you have those few that are considered artists in the craft. Take away the passion though and you are back to the mundane. Best,
Brad Burt
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calamari Elite user The San Francisco Bay Area 429 Posts |
The ability to entertain an audience makes a good magician. after all is said and done it is the audience who decides.
and audiences are not all the same, a room full of magicians will look for skill and ability first and entertainment value second. a room full of non magicians will look for entertainment value first and nothing else.
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
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P.T. Murphy Loyal user 224 Posts |
I think this falls into what Brad just said about passion. My vote is for sincerity. Skill, theory...those things will come with time. But somebody who is genuine, sincere, passionate if you will...well the audience can sense that and they are willing to go on the journey.
P.T. Murphy
www.ptmurphy.com |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
Interesting topic. I don't think anyone would ever suggest that the trick is more important than the presentation. But what we say and what we do are often at odds with each other.
For instance, how many of us have walked into our local magic store looking for the latest, greatest trick? Probably everyone. The scavenger hunt for that one trick that will elevate our magic and make everyone else drop to their knees in total awe and bewilderment has been going on for generations. Now, if you look around that same magic shop, what percentage of the inventory is designed to help make your PRESENTATION better? The reality is - not much. Relatively speaking, there are very few books or DVD's on the market that focus on this all important aspect of the art. If we generally accept that presentation is so important to magic, why aren't new books and dvds being marketed on a regular basis to help magicians get better? The jaded answer may be that there's no money in it. No one will buy it. But that doesn't make sense. If we generally accept the importance of presentation, these types of books and dvds should be in every magician's library. Now let's take it one step further. If anyone has ever attended a magic convention, almost every one of the lectures will showcase new effects and products. Seldom do you see a lecture that focuses purely on principles of presentation and showmanship to help make all of your existing magic stronger. Instead, everyone grabs onto the latest, greatest product being released, and everyone performs it madly for the next two years. What we end up with at the end of the day are a bunch of magicians all performing the same tricks with very similar styles and personalities. This stifles the devleopment of magic as an art form and relegates many magicians to the state of performing clones. Now, there are exceptions to the rule. David Blaine made his mark on the world by tossing out the tuxedo and running in the opposite direction. Sigfried and Roy made their mark with the use of wild animals. Copperfield injected elements of modern theatre and dance, turning each of his effects into playetts. These people (like them or not) all have extremely distinct personalities and the presentation of each effect is designed to fit in with that style. Interestingly, it's these types of performers that tend to really be remembered. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Ivan Hamaric New user Croatia 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-07-14 12:23, P.T. Murphy wrote: When I read this, I felt everything that needed to be said was said. I would like to add, though, that sincerity in performing isn't just a beautiful, noble and elusive idea that we instinctivly like. It is also the most important technical tool. I will explain. One of the most important things in performing magic (if not, indeed, the MOST important one), is being aware of your performing character. Once that level is attained, everything else gradually just falls into place. Performing character is also often reffered to as style, although I believe those two concepts are not identical. The most effective tool to understand who you are when you perform, is to be sincere to yourself, and to your audiences. In magic, being sincere is not so much a question of ethics (although I personally believe this is also very important), but almost a techical requirement which you have to meet in order to become a good magician. That said, I wish you all the best in finding out who YOU are when doing magic. Ivan
"Doubtless the pleasure is as great
Of being cheated, as to cheat..." Samuel "Hudibras" Butler (1612-1680) |
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