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Marvello
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Quote:
On 2006-07-19 01:06, Daegs wrote:
Not really much technical information though...

I read it and basically all I got was "Its using magnets".

Everything else is so vague it could mean about anything.

nope- they are keeping the technology for themselves, but it is interesting to see that somebody is making some good strides in that area.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
Jonathan Townsend
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Not so sure this is new.

There are toys using something close to this principle. The actual power/energy issues seem to come down to magnets, geometry and ... as I recall something from the Feynman lectures about "perpetual motion" and entropy. Even with the dice loaded by magnetism, entropy wins.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
quickhands
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Correct!!, perpetual motion machines violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is thus not possible to device a machine that produces more work than it consumes. Solar cells are different in the sense that although they do not violate the laws of thermodynamics, they use "free energy", that is, we do not have to pay the sun for it ;-).

There is a pretty basic explanation in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

It has a few errors (for instance, the "t" in eq 1 stands for TEMPERATURE!!!, not time) but it is close enough.

and more related to the subject of discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exergy_efficiency

More "magically" related, Richard Faynman (n1965) was good at opening safes and playing drums ;-).

QH.
balducci
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That's "Feynman". Sorry, but someone was going to correct you if not me. Here's a site dedicated to his memory and contributions:

http://www.feynman.com/

I always enjoyed Feynman's stories about the ladies.

:)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
quickhands
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Sorry for thy typo, thanks balducci!!!
Magic Spank
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Quote:
On 2006-07-18 20:54, Daegs wrote:
I am personally very weary of all the people proposing solar/thermal/wind energy.

If you follow the "flap of a butterflies wings causing a hurricane" chaos type theory, then I cant help thinking about what happens when you take away 5% of the winds from the planet that has used them for so many years.



Very smart.


And eople don't realize that putting windmills on the side of the expressway to harness engergy from the cars whipping by is actually stealing the energy directly from your gas tank by creating more resistance.

It always comes from somewhere.


Rob
Scott Cram
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It's time to explain power generation and consumption for those not familiar with it.

Most people think that the power is generated, and then goes out on the grid, and is then consumed.

Wrong. When more power is needed, that would quickly result in blackouts. Try hooking up a generator, and you'll find it's not hard to throttle it as you increase the load beyond its capacity. This is true, regardless of how much fuel you provide to the generator. Scale this model up to larger generators and millions of homes, and the same thing could easily happen.

There are three kinds of power generation that need to happen for your electricity to work as consistently as possible: base, ramp and peak.

Base power generation is what keeps your lights on all the time. This rarely, if ever, fluctuates. What is needed here is a form of power in which you can provide a specific amount of fuel, and be absolutely sure that you're going to get a specific amount of energy by consuming that fuel. There are only three forms of energy that can do this: Hydroelectric dams, nuclear power and the burning of fossil fuels.

Solar power? No good on a cloudy day. Wind power? No good when there's no wind.

Without base power, you would have massive power fluctuations, and the whole energy grid in an area would collapse. Imagine that happening hourly!

The next kind of power generation is ramp generation. This is the kind of power needed when everyone gets home from work and starts turning on the air conditioning, the TV and cooks dinner. There are models about the demand for this for the various times of year. Because this has to be absolutely reliable, this too must be powered by hydroelectric dams, nuclear power and/or the burning of fossil fuels.

The final kind of power generation is peak generation. When unexpected load is required, the peak generators can be ramped up. This is where the power from solar and wind energy, etc., can come in, assuming they're being generated. BTW, if you're ever wondering what that thing next to every wind or solar power generator used by a power company is, it's a generator that runs on natural gas or oil. That's required because demanded power must be supplied, and if the wind turbine or solar power isn't putting out the needed power, it has to come from somewhere!

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as an even remotely efficient way to store the massive amounts of energy we need to maintain life as we know it, so this is the way it has to work!
Greg Rostami
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Hello to all interested in generating FREE POWER,

I will give away my invention here at the Magic Café.

I call it HUMIDITY POWER.

My energy generator does NOT use:

Sun
Wind
Atomic
Any Fuel (Coal, Natural Gas, Oil, etc.)
Geothermal
Biomass
Water (it actually MAKES water!)

Here is how it works:

Take an Air to Water converter like this one:
http://airwatercorp.com/detail.aspx?ProductId=91

Put it up on a water tower like this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_tower

And let the water fall down to a generator like this one:
http://nooutage.com/largehydro.htm


Here is a more detailed break down:

Air to water conversion machines convert the humidity in the air to water. The machine listed above generates about 5000 liters of water per day depending on the humidity of the air. These machines unfortunately require electricity to run. So the question is “How can you create a machine that makes water that does NOT use electricity?”

We all know about hydro electric power. What that means is when water falls it generates power. If you let that falling water go through the turbines of a generator, you have created electricity.

Soooo . . .
You put an air-to-water converter on a water tower.
You start the machine by giving it a little electricity so it can make water.
That water drops 120 feet to the generator down below.
The generator produces enough electricity to power the air-to-water generator.
If you need more electricity, YOU PUT THE AIR-TO-WATER MACHINE ON A HIGHER TOWER
As long as there is humidity in the air, the machine will run.

My Humidity power is also a great battery for the energy that it creates.
By changing the AMOUNT of water that drops, you can regulate how much energy you create (to satisfy demand/load)
The water stored in the reservoir acts like a low-tech battery . . . mass at any altitude has potential energy.

In conclusion my machine creates 3 things that we all need for life:

1. Water (from the humidity in the air)
2. Power (from that water dropping)
3. Heat (because the air-to-water machine needs to create heat before it can create cold)
4. Cold / AC (because air-to-water machines are basically air-conditioners modified for higher condensation)

If my friends here at the café, know of some venture capitalists that would be interested in helping me build this idea, Contact me . . .

All the best,
Greg Rostami
ChristianR
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Remember, it takes energy to create something (plants, steel, plastic, humidity machines, dams, solar power tiles, windmills,etc.)
Tarbell!
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2006-07-18 10:08, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-07-18 09:57, Cliffg37 wrote:
Oddly enough, we may soon have a machine that puts out more energy than it uses. I have seen a prototype (not yet working) with my own eyes. It is simply a fusion machine (tokamac) that creates temperatures inside of it that rival the Sun. It is theorized, that once we get the technology sorted out, that free energy will be ours. ..


Theorized
once we get the technology sorted out

how about simply keeping in mind that the sun is safe (kind of) because it is way far away and we are protected by a large magnetic field and atmosphere?


Actually, the sun is safe because it's working properly. Eventually, it's going to run out of fuel and expand to a red giant engulfing the orbit of Mars. This will be in a few million years I think, so I wouldn't go around canceling book club memberships, but you get the idea.
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2006-07-19 15:05, Magic Spank wrote:

And eople don't realize that putting windmills on the side of the expressway to harness engergy from the cars whipping by is actually stealing the energy directly from your gas tank by creating more resistance.

Windmills to harness energy from cars passing by? That's a new one to me. Sounds almost like an urban legend, but I wouldn't put anything past you guys in vegas ...

:)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
NeoMagic
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Quote:
On 2006-07-22 12:15, mandrake01 wrote:

Actually, the sun is safe because it's working properly...


Actually, the Sun is not safe at all... were it not for the Earth's protective magnetic/atmospheric layer as has already been mentioned we'd be exposed to some pretty harmful rays from our nearest star.

Quote:
This will be in a few million years I think...


Billions.
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Bill Palmer
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My favorite b******s offering is the hydrogen powered vehicle. After all, hydrogen burns clean, producing water as its byproduct, right? And you can get all the hydrogen you want by breaking water into its component parts, right?

And you can store it very easily, right?

Well, it takes ENERGY to break water into hyrdogen and oxygen. When you break it down and recombine it, there is, of necesssity, an energy loss.

And regarding hydrogen storage--anyone remember the Hindenberg? BLAMMMO!!!!! FLAME-O!!!!!
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2006-07-22 20:13, Bill Palmer wrote:

And regarding hydrogen storage--anyone remember the Hindenberg? BLAMMMO!!!!! FLAME-O!!!!!

Apparently the hydrogen wasn't to blame, it was the outer covering. The following passages are all taken without credit from various web sites (use a google search for the references if you want):

The Hindenburg was covered with cotton fabric, that had to be waterproof. So it had been swabbed with cellulose acetate (which happened to be very inflammable) that was then covered with aluminium powder (which is used as rocket fuel to propel the Space Shuttle into orbit). Indeed, the aluminium powder was in tiny flakes, which made them very susceptible to sparking. It was inevitable that a charged atmosphere would ignite the flammable skin.

In all of this, the hydrogen was innocent. In the terrible disaster, the Hindenburg burnt with a red flame. But hydrogen burns with an almost invisible bluish flame. In the Hindenburg disaster, as soon as the hydrogen bladders were opened by the flames, the hydrogen inside would have escaped up and away from the burning airship - and it would not have not contributed to the ensuing fire. The hydrogen was totally innocent. In fact, in 1935, a helium-filled airship with an acetate-aluminium skin burned near Point Sur in California with equal ferocity. The Hindenberg disaster was not caused by the hydrogen.

The lesson is obvious - the next time you build an airship, don't paint the inflammable acetate skin with aluminium rocket fuel.

---

Careful investigation of the Hindenburg disaster verified the opinion of the engineers on the Hindenburg and proved that it was the flammable aluminum powder filled paint varnish that coated the infamous airship, not the hydrogen that started the fateful fire.

The Hindenburg repeated the famous experiment of Ben Franklin regarding collection of electric charge on an object in the sky. Ben Franklin flew a kite in a storm to learn about lightening. The captain of the Hindenburg provided the 800' long, 236 ton, aluminum-powder varnish covered airship as a much larger electric charge collector. As the Hindenburg was grounded by dropping landing lines, the experiment was complete and electrical discharge in the Hindenburg's skin started the fire. The Hindenburg would have burned and crashed if it had been filled with helium or simply held in the air by some other force.

As eyewitnesses noted, the hydrogen fire started considerably after the Hindenburg’s surface skin started to burn and was over in less than one minute. The diesel fuel and other heavier-than-air components of the Hindenburg continued to burn many hours on the ground.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
RandyStewart
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Well it's not entirely free as you have to buy the radio and do have to crank it up. It's the Summit radio that Art Bell talked about on his Coast to Coast radio program for a couple of months prior to Y2K. And of course we UFO fanatical Government conspiracy theorists weren't going to be out of touch when Y2K shut the world down. No siree we'd have our Summit radios! Well we all know how that went but it's still a bargain for the money. You can find one at The Preparedness Center (what a name huh?) http://store.preparedness.com/basepofrsura.html

So don't be cut off from the rest of the world when that alien mother ship, the size of two states shows up and sucks up our generated power supply. You'll have the Summit Radio and at least be able to hear someone cry "Oh the humanity!"...


Product Detail:

The Freeplay Summit radio offers reliable access to music and global information whenever and wherever you need it. The Summit is the lightest weight, most compact of the the Freeplay Shortwave radios. The Freeplay Summit offers you the choice of 3 power options:

Wind up:

The Freeplay direct drive system in the Summit consists of a simple gearing transmission which drives the AC alternator, providing power to the internal battery. You cannot over wind the unit as the energy simply recharges the battery. The winder handle can be cranked in both directions. Forty minutes of cranking using the optimum charge level indicator will fully charge the battery. The charge indicator light will only illuminate when you are winding the handle at the ideal speed. The generator will still charge at lower speeds, however, it is less efficient, consequently it will take longer to generate the same amount of energy. A fully charged Freeplay Summit will play for approximately 20 hours. A 30 second wind will provide about 30 minutes of normal volume playtime. Playtimes will vary with the volume setting.

Solar:

It will take approximately 40 hours to fully charge the Freeplay Summit radio's internal battery using its high performance amorphous, thin film solar panel. The solar panel must be in direct sunlight to power the radio. Charging can be done even when the radio is switched off.

AC Power:

The Freeplay Summit comes with a 6V 100MA AC adapter. The adapter works on either 110 or 220V power, and has three adapter plugs for use in most parts of the world. It will take approximately 24 hours to fully charge the internal battery using the wall adapter. The Freeplay Summit rechargable battery is a removable Nickle Metal Hydride pack. For best results, the internal battery requires a 24 conditioning charge prior to use. The radio can, however, be used immediately in the wind-up mode if required.

The Freeplay Summit has digital tuning which is a plus, as it is easier to use, especially for beginners. You can pick the precise station on the dial with no quessing required. You get 30 station memories: 10 FM, 10 MW (AM), 5 SW and 5 LW.

Additional features of the Summit include a clock, an alarm, an earphone socket for personal listening, a lock function which locks the buttons so you don't accidently turn the radio on, and low voltage cut off to prevent the battery from being drained which protects your memory settings. The small size, special features, world power adapters, and adjustable AM frequency separation make the Summit shortwave radio the perfect traveling campanion at home or abroad. Height 35" (90mm) Length 6.7" (171mm) width 3.1" (80mm) weight 24.7oz (700g). The Freeplay Summit comes with a standard 2 year warranty.

The Summit comes with clip on Shortwave Antenna and AC adapter

The key features of the Summit:

4 wave bands (FM/MW/SW/LW), Digital tuning
LCD Digital display
Digital clock with alarm.
10 FM preset stations 88-108 MHz
10 MW preset stations 540-1650 kHz
5 SW preset stations 5.95-15.6 MHz
5 LW preset stations 146-281 kHz

$89.00 US
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2006-07-22 19:28, NeoMagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-07-22 12:15, mandrake01 wrote:

Actually, the sun is safe because it's working properly...


Actually, the Sun is not safe at all... were it not for the Earth's protective magnetic/atmospheric layer as has already been mentioned we'd be exposed to some pretty harmful rays from our nearest star.


This is true. My bad.



Quote:
This will be in a few million years I think...


Billions.
[/quote]

I underestimated. Asimov once did a book which discussed the heat death of the universe. He got a call from a teenaged girl sobbing because it would all be over in a few billion years.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
balducci
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Quote:
On 2006-07-23 00:02, mandrake01 wrote:

I underestimated. Asimov once did a book which discussed the heat death of the universe. He got a call from a teenaged girl sobbing because it would all be over in a few billion years.

I came across a Pearls Before Swine cartoon the other day. The character Pig was portrayed by the cartoonist as being foolishly despondent because a meteor was going to crash into the earth at some "distant" time in the future.

But the cartoonist's numbers were off ... he said the comet was travelling at X thousands of miles per hour, and was Y miles out, and when I did the calculations (well, a quick estimate in my head) it worked out to be only 4 or so years away.

Stupid cartoonist. :-(
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
quickhands
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When I first posted, I thought this post was for real. I guess I missed the humor intended. After some of the recent posts I realized my mistake. You guys sure fooled me ;-). This forum is great, I will sure stop by more often.

QH.
pegasus
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Quote:
On 2006-07-22 12:15, mandrake01 wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-07-18 10:08, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-07-18 09:57, Cliffg37 wrote:
Oddly enough, we may soon have a machine that puts out more energy than it uses. I have seen a prototype (not yet working) with my own eyes. It is simply a fusion machine (tokamac) that creates temperatures inside of it that rival the Sun. It is theorized, that once we get the technology sorted out, that free energy will be ours. ..


Theorized
once we get the technology sorted out

how about simply keeping in mind that the sun is safe (kind of) because it is way far away and we are protected by a large magnetic field and atmosphere?


Actually, the sun is safe because it's working properly. Eventually, it's going to run out of fuel and expand to a red giant engulfing the orbit of Mars. This will be in a few million years I think, so I wouldn't go around canceling book club memberships, but you get the idea.

The Sun is approx half way through its life on the Main Sequence, that is converting H to He4 via fusion (Proton Proton chain). In approx 4.5 Billion years the sun will leave the main sequence due to loss of H and will contract until their is enough heat in its core to begin fusion of heavier elements, which will then indeed cause the sun to expand to a red giant. Its a long way off yet.
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