Hello all,
I currently do a mixture of Williamson's 2 cup routine and the routine of Carl Andrews table hopping cups and balls. I currently use the Ammar Cups but I was looking to get a good set of Silver looking or stainless steel cups that look like the fox cups or Ammar cups. Any suggestions?

RNT2 has a good set stainless steel Paul Fox cups. They fit a regulation lacrosse ball. You can find them at http://www.rnt2.com. Only 5 sets left!

Steven

The Ammar/Encore cups are currently only available in copper. The beads are fairly tight, so plating them might not be an option. Several cup makers offer plated cups, though.

Trust me on this. You don't want silver plate. It will eventually wear off. Chrome is much harder and stays better if it is applied correctly in the first place.

Thanks Bill, is there a certain cup you recommend? I was looking to spend about 100 but I might have to shell out the 450 for the fox cups mentioned above.

Wow! That's a tough question. It depends on what you want from a cup.

The Fox stainless are good.

The van Dokkum stainless are indestructible, and they are good.

The Porper stainless are very nice.

But none of those are inexpensive. Good cups are really not cheap at all.

You might consider getting a set of Johnson cups and having them plated, but that will probably be pretty expensive, too, if it is done right, because they will need to plate them at least twice.

If you get cups plated they will run you about 40.00 per cup if done with a cyanide strike method, which is the only way your cups plating will hold the nickel over time to them. The cost may be higher if you need the cups modified so the nickel is drawn against the cup with the bead meets the cup. A good shop would be able to take a file and cut a small groove on the bead, but some shops are wary about this if they do not have someone who is familiar with the process.

You can get heavy silver plating done, this is nothing like the silverplate from Mexico, China etc, but again you need to have a good company with a good reputation in plating.

I have a set of plated Johnson cups, again the problem is with the bead at the mouth, right at the bead ridge the nickel will not take to the cup. Also, be prepared with any nickled cup to have to paint or powder coat the inside. Nickel and the chrome will not draw up inside the cup, leaving a black nickel as the finish. If done correctly plating the Johnson cups will cost about as much as the cups did.

You can call around to different shops, but if one says "Oh we can do it cheaper" find out what method they use to nickel the cups, plating is a precision not a competative market, same goes for anodizing.

Jake

If you are going to have aftermarket plating done on anything like cups, your best bet is a place that does restoration of antique lamps. They have the knowhow to get into the little crevasses and crannies you find in cups.

Also, musical instrument repair facilities, if they have in house plating.

And use Nickle not Chrome please.

Doesn't matter what expertise ie, lamp repair, the plating process only yeilds good results if the item being plated is able to have the plating applied. When the cups are racked onto the anodes and submerged into the solution tank the current draws the nickel from the solution to the rack, the plating will adhere to the largest areas easily, sharp contours and thight areas do not nickel as the current is not the strongest at those points. Filing the mouth beads open if not left open will allow the solution to seap into the openings, however current is still low in that area. A nickel bath lasts about 90 minutes or longer depending on the piece being plated.

As for Nickel not chrome, unless you want to be cleaning the cups all the time, chrome is recommended. Chroming is not a metal plating process but a clear coating process that was designed for especially for Nickel items. Copper items Nickel the best, if you take anything brass to be plated it has to be copper struck in order to plate with nickel, silver etc. Chroming will keep you from having to clean your cups if you handle them often. As mentioned before the Nickel process takes about 90 minutes in the tank, chroming takes 15-20 seconds.

Jake

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. To go the easier route I was hoping to buy some that are already nickel or chrome or whatever give that silver look, everything I have is silver and I just don't like the copper cups, I want to have chrome ones like Williamson does in Sleight of Dave. any suggestions, I think I might have to spring for the fox cups mentioned earlier. THANKS!

John Ramsay used cardboard ice cream cups and merely PAINTED them with silver paint...

Now that even I could afford!

Or you paint large Baskin Robin cups silver then go to Michaels and get the gold overlay leafing, lightly apply the overlay leaf to any textured areas evenly on the cup and you have the Baskin's 32 Flavor Engraved cups. Really the gold leaf over parts of the cup really look nice, to protect apply some spray shellac.

Jake

Or, if you really want to do it right, go to a sign painter's supply and get real gold leafing. It's pretty expensive nowadays, but back in the 1960's, before the government's attitude towards gold changed, I used to work with real gold leaf. You can still buy it.

You prepare the surface by painting it Venetian red. Then you apply sizing. Allow the sizing to dry, at which point it becomes tacky. Then apply the gold leaf. Buff it with a soft chamois and apply varnish to it to seal it.

Here is a very educational link about chrome plating http://www.finishing.com/faqs/chrome.html

Also, if you want chrome, nickel, gold or any other plating that is done by people who have been in the industry for many years, First Quality Musical Supplies in Louisville Kentucky has done custom work for me on banjos for quite a while. They don't do the work in-house, but they have someone who works with them who understands how to get down into the crevasses and crannies in a piece and get the work done nice and clean. They are accustomed to working on musical instrument parts for instruments worth upwards of $250,000.00. Their web site is at http://www.fqms.com , but you should call them and speak to Bill Sullivan for custom plating information.

They plate on brass, copper and die cast.

Another good link is http://www.advancedplating.com/process/process.htm

This will give you a visual of the process so to speak. What they don't mention is the 9-13 steps of cleaning solutions and degreaser that the item goes through. After you think about how much a single small part has to be handled from start to finish you start to realize the price platers charge is not too bad when it's done right.

And if it's not done right...it will peel right off the parts.

Very very true. A number of factors can contribute to the plate peeling from the cup. Incorrect voltage, faulty anode attatchment or racks, improper cleaning prior to the plating, but most of all the new process used in plating which uses a method other than a cyanide copper strike.

And if the EPA has its way, that method will be a thing of the past in a few years. Too bad.

Only a few shops have been "grandfathered" from switching over. Shops that regularly pass stringent EPA inspections and handle disposel correctly have been allowed to continue. The particular company we use has been in business since 1902. The company was given the option to shut down their anodizing and be allowed to continue using the old cyanide strike method or keep the anodizing and convert to the new process. The company chose to shut down the anodizing. The logistics of the EPA were so that the company would continue to concentrate on proper handling and disposal of the waste materials. An EPA inspecter visits their shop a min. of 5 times a month on average.

Actually I'm working on using Haagen Dazs four ounce cups and getting very frustrated. Anyone up for doing this stuff? Looking to get the cup and lid silvered then clear coated. ( yes I expect to pay for this service )