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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Asking for something for nothing (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bill Nuvo
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Recently there have been a few posts asking for donation of tricks/illusions and money to help with other magical endeavours.

Now I don't see a problem with helping people, especially those less fortunate.

The problem I see is that this idea could snowball into a big problem.

Is the person asking really needy or derserving of said request?

I have never had anything given to me. I have earned everything I own. I feel this earning your way has made me value what I have more.

Now having said that....A person can recieve something without paying cash. There is also the idea of earning things through friendships and through spreading of knowledge.

So...Is it right for someone to ask people they don't know for something for free, a donation?
CJRichard
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Well, every week at the grocery store I encounter strangers asking other strangers for donations to go toward everything from dance schools to little league teams to stray cats.

Never saw a magician panhandling that way, though.

Come to think of it, I've never recognized a person I know fundraising in that manner. . .

The trouble with internet posts is, of course, there no way of knowing who the other parties really are. It's one thing to pass Howie Diddits on to strangers, but I'm not sending cash to somebody claiming they need it to attend clown college.

On the other hand if, for example, I heard the Bill Palmer run into financial hardship and was going to have to sell off the museum, I might send a few bucks to help him save his balls.




And his cups.
"You know some of you are laughin', but there's people here tryin' to learn. . ." -Pop Haydn

"I know of no other art that proclaims itself 'easy to do.'" -Master Payne

Ezekiel the Green
BlackShadow
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Yes I would say donate as much as possible to help people with their magic. Some people are less fortunate in a financial sense. It is very easy for someone who is well off to take what they have for granted. And the board is supposed to be about magicians helping magicians, so give generously to everyone. The giving doesn't have to be finance. It could be in the form of knowledge or advice which is just as helpful to get someone's show on the road.

I suppose if a person didn't agree with the concept of magicians helping magicians, there are other more closed shop set ups one could join where everything is jealously hoarded.
Marvello
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I think it is a bad trend, also. If someone posts and asks for something for free, and then they get a positive response, some people are bound to feel entitled, as well. It's human nature.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
Bill Nuvo
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Marvello, that is exactly what I am thinking. Should I feel entitled to ask now? If it works for someone with very little responsibility (under 16 years old), why can't it work for someone like me who is in tough times?

I know that some younger magicians that I have talked to like to meet proffessional magicians and then just start asking for things they don't use and such. To me this is in very poor taste. I don't think I would ever seriously ask anyone for a donation of a trick like that. I would expect to become friends and then maybe after at least 2 years of friendship, might I mention something. And even with that cenario, I would not directly ask for it, I might hint at it and that magician being a friend with a good heart can decide of his own will and insight that I could use the help.

Sometimes just asking straight out seems a little rude to me. I can get a normal job within 2 days if I had too. That's what temp/personel agencies are for. So in this sense, I would be more willing to donate to someone who at least is having a try at it first and then failing instead of not trying to do it first and just saying they don't have the money (because they don't have a job (age?))

As CJ said, the trouble with internet posts is that you don't really know the other party involved unless you have met them in person or they already have a reputation and are well know by others.
Skip Way
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Seems to me that this is something that should be handled through the local magic club Assemblies and Rings. Back when I clowned and belonged to COAI and WCA, our chapters maintained donated costume items, shoes, props and gear for the less fortunate among us. They would also hold drives for those who lost everything through theft, fire or disaster. It was a great way of clearing that unused junk out of my workshop that just didn't seem worth selling.

This said...it never hurts to ask. If an Assembly or Ring officer or TVP were to post such a request for supporting a peer in need, I would personally be far more likely to consider the request. I agree with BlackShadow in aiding our fellows and fellowettes in need...but, how do we know that the item or support we're giving is truely going to one in dire need and not some tight fisted Scrooge. Leave it to the clubs.

Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
accolombel
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I would say that one should be carefull. Give localy ie through the clubs or if a local magician tells you of someone who needs help. Giving to someone who just emails(or phone, writes, etc) is not the best way to give. You don't know if that is someone who realy needs help or is a scam artist who will sell your gift on Ebay. If it is someone writing on the board asking for help, if they are new to the board see if there is someone who can check on their story where they live. Or contact them and get more information.
Help but be careful and judicious in your giving.


Craig
craig colombel
RandyStewart
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I seem to recall such a post and it came from a no face avatar and no profile member. I did PM the individual and told him he/she had to be kidding. You can't go before a community, wearing a mask, and asking for such help.

I've given a few items away in the For Sale forum as long as taker paid shipping via paypal. The takers were happy.

I remember a radio interview with Bill Palmer at a gathering of The Magic Circle and the interviewer was trying to gauge what Bill would expose or "sell" for the right price. He said he could and would sell the right information to the right person for THE RIGHT PRICE! Ending that interview with "Then again, I don't give anything away for a pound"....

mrbilldentertainer said he's earned everything he has and has come to appreciate it far more. Bingo! Bill Palmer suggested the same in the "exchange" of information or physical props within our art. It also comes with it's built in, although immeasurable, assurance that it will be appreciated and protected from the Muggles.

If someone gave me (method or physical prop) something to care for and carry on I’d be honored. I could only be so lucky. And although it was “given” I would surely protect and care for it as if it had cost me as much as it’s original owner. But then again, I would be quite the exception in that case as most would place little value on such things.

With a few very rare exceptions, nothing worthwhile is FREE and if it is, you pay for it later.
rossmacrae
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Asking for information, as many/most posts begin on the Café, is also asking for something for nothing.

One person can ask for the sharing of someone else's expertise, or for donations of goods, and anyone else can give or refuse - it's not exactly like grabbing someone's arm on the street and begging.
Keairao
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I always prefered to do my 'fundraising' on a local level. My first shows were financed through my own cash supplemented by keg parties, car washes, busking, picking up a few odd jobs, etc. In that sense, no one gave something and got nothing in return. They got beer, a shinny clean car, a performance or good old fashioned honest work. There's lots of ways to raise funds for whatever you need it for, you just have to be creative.

That said, I'm not one to give something for nothing either, at least not in this type of situation (obvious exceptions are charity, or a friend/co-worker/innocent person who has lost everything due to circumstances beyond their control) I think you guys are totally right on this one, get a job or save your allowance or whatever to buy the tricks you want. If it's info you need, make frineds with people before asking for advice, or offer something in return (other info, cash, etc) I'm a big fan of the barter system.
Bill Palmer
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A few years ago, there was a magician from one of the former iron curtain countries who hit upon a really interesting scheme to fatten his pocketbook and acquire free magic. He sent letters to all of the IBM rings and SAM assemblies that he could locate. He also sent out e-mails to every professional magician on the internet.

Several of us donated books, etc., but it got to the point that he was basically asking us to fund his travels around Europe. Then he started threatening people and declaring that we had broken our promises to send him things.

I explained to him that his persistent e-mails had cost him more than he could ever know, and that when I said I would see what I could send him, I meant just that. And I couldn't find anything.
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BlackShadow
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Some of these posts seem to hark back a few years. Now the net is all powerful and although there are still active magic clubs, how would you approach Bill's original point of what would you give to someone who had made perhaps a few posts on a forum.

I know you could revert to Skip's view about handling through Magic clubs, but what if the net was the the main contact you had with magicians in your field. How would tackle the subject?
RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-08-22 21:45, BlackShadow wrote:

I know you could revert to Skip's view about handling through Magic clubs, but what if the net was the the main contact you had with magicians in your field. How would tackle the subject?


Shovel sh*t.

I literally did that a few years ago when I took an extra job on a ranch! My income was not enough to splurge on the things I wanted in magic so as to not cut into my real life obligations and cost of living, I took a Ranch job. This job I did very well and exceeded my employer's exptations all the time. None of the Rach tasks fased me as I knew every move was an investment in getting what I wanted.

A couple of the effects in the video clip below I purchased with that very dirty but very honest job.

I also don't know any magicians and have had no one to "lean" on as the Internet connections has been it.

So what was the original problem at hand?
Bill Nuvo
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Obviously, the answer to giving something can only be answered by each individual unto themselves. One must feel comfortable in the situation upon taking in all the revelant information.

So on that note...

Does anyone have anything to donate to me?
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