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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » When to do the cups and balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

aiki
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I am trying to figure out on why people do the cups and balls at different points in there show or why they do not do the cups and balls. I am throwing this out to hopefully get some good discussion on this.

I know some people choose not do the cups and balls and one of the reasons maybe that they do not want to do something that everybody else does. I am wondering how many other magicians are performing the cups and balls in the same area as you.? Also if you do not do the cups and balls, why?

For the people who do the cups and balls, I have a couple of questions also. Most people seem to do the cups and balls at the end of the show. I understand that this is where the big finish with the hat load is placed but has anybody ever done the cups and balls in the middle of the show.? I ask this because I know there are people who do the cups and balls at the start of the show. I know Tom Frank does the cups and balls at the start of his show. For people who do it this way I assume that you would not do a hat load? If you do the cups and balls at the start for the middle of the show, do you find that the start has brought people to a high level of interest and during the middle of the show their interest starts to drop and you start to loose people? What got me thinking about this was that if a performer had a strong final for their show and did the cups and balls in the middle would this help bring the people in the back in closer so that they get packed tighter? In theory with the balls being smaller people would move in closer so that they could see and then you would be able to possibly keep more people during the final and have a bigger hat.

What does everyone think.
Ray K.

Till we meet again!
Bill Palmer
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It all depends on the performer's personality and his intent with the cups. I don't do a hat load. I also tend do perform a chop cup routine more often than I would a three cup routine. My ending piece is almost always the Anderson Newspaper Tear. This is a hassle to set up, so most people don't do it on the street. It's also expensive, if you don't know how to get a deal on the newspapers.

When I work in Houston, I can get newspapers free (and legally!) But this is my style and it wouldn't work for Gazzo, for example. Gazzo's style doesn't work for me. Now, don't take this to mean that I don't like Gazzo's style. I do -- when he does it. But watching someone else "do Gazzo," is like watching someone wearing someone else's clothing. It really doesn't fit right.

You have to determine through experience what works for you.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
aiki
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Thanks Bill for the reply.

It not that I want to do someone else's style. What I am looking for is why did someone choose to place the cups and balls in the position of their routine that they did and not somewhere else. I am leaning towards the middle of the routine but there may be problems that I have not thought of yet. For the fair work that you did, where did you place the cups and balls when you did them, was there a reason?

Thanks
Ray K.

Till we meet again!
ac-magic
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Pete Wardell has a) an excellent routine, more importantly (for you) some very interesting thoughts on mixing routines. I won't reveal them here, if you want to find out, buy his "Crowd Puller" DVD's from your favourite dealer. He lectured at my club not too long ago and the routine was fantastic!


Highly recommended (although I don't actually have the DVD's)



Ali
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aiki
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Ali

I do have his DVD he does not really go into mixing the routine. He does it at the close of his show and he explains his routine and how it developed over the years. I have read some where that Peter has won competitions in the past with his cups and balls work.
Ray K.

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ac-magic
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Okay, sorry about that.



Ali
A Smile, mind reading, funny escape artist wanna-be
Dave V
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What Peter does do, is that he takes a break halfway through his C&B routine for some comedy by-play and (I think) his Card to Mouth routine. He then returns to the cups and finishes the show.
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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-07-26 14:43, aiki wrote:
Thanks Bill for the reply.

It not that I want to do someone else's style. What I am looking for is why did someone choose to place the cups and balls in the position of their routine that they did and not somewhere else. I am leaning towards the middle of the routine but there may be problems that I have not thought of yet. For the fair work that you did, where did you place the cups and balls when you did them, was there a reason?

Thanks


Yes, as I mentioned already, I have a stronger closer. I also have a better opener. For me the cup routine was the second or third in a five trick show.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
aiki
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Thank to all who have responded. I had hope to get more of a discussion going but it does not look like it.

Bill,

So you had your strongest trick at the start, your second strongest as a closer and the cups in the middle? Now that is impressive. Why the strongest as a opener?

Do you think that Cups in the middle of the routine helps pack the people closer together because of the visibility of the balls?

Thanks
Ray K.

Till we meet again!
ROBERT BLAKE
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My believe is that many people do the cups at the end because most of them do that. I went to a street magic competion in Austria and from the 15 contestants 12 where doing the cups and balls. basically the same vernon- cellini routine. some magicians are layzy and can't come up with thier own things.

the position of the cups and balls depends on the kind of show and personality. some do it as a begining but have an even bigger finale for others it is the biggest trick they can do. in the end it does not matter where you do it it only matters what't in the hat.

basically there are 2 kind of streetmagic (for me)
1) the cellini type of show - table c&b - 15 min. show

2) a circle show - (EXAMPLE; high unicyle juggle show) - 30 /40 min.

I am a circle show performer doing a bigger show. wich is for me a challenge to get as much people as those juggle shows. and I can. iam not doing the cups and balls because I choose to do a circle show and in my kind of way of performing it does not suite me. (although I do a cups and balls routine for close up wich earned me a 2nd price on the dutch convention)
Dannydoyle
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I have a tendency similar to Bills. I use a chop cup.

I do it first for several reasons. After LONG discussions with Don Alan about this exact thing, my tendency is to "announce my presance with authority". I want to sepporate myself from everyone who may have a bad impression of magicans for whatever reason. This gets them saying WOW what is next. I have a strong closer so it is no problem.

If you don't have anything strong enough to follow and close, then you can not use this method.

Hope this answers your question.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ed rhodes
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I toyed with the idea of doing the Egg Bag at some point and NOT finding the egg at the end!

Later, at the end of the act, I would do Cups and Balls and after producing the three large balls, remind the audience that I needed to find that egg from the earlier trick. Lift up the stack of cups and "there it is."

You guys think that's worth doing, feel free.
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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-07-28 09:58, aiki wrote:

Bill,

So you had your strongest trick at the start, your second strongest as a closer and the cups in the middle? Now that is impressive. Why the strongest as a opener?

Do you think that Cups in the middle of the routine helps pack the people closer together because of the visibility of the balls?

Thanks


No, I just re read my post and I see how it may have been confusing. The closer was the strongest item in the show. The opener was something that would help build the crowd -- something with sound, response, and visibilty.

Whether the cups in the middle of the routine helps pack the people closer together depends on you, not the visibility of the balls or lack there of.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Faulkner
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Mandrake,
I like the idea of the egg getting lost and you finding it later, I think themes like that strengthen a show and give it more depth. Even something as simple as the egg gives them one more thing to hang on to.
I also like the egg bag for the street, I had forgotten I have one. Talk about packing small!

Try it out and let us know
aiki
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Mandrake01

I think thia may be a nice routine. I would think that after you lost the egg witht he egg bag and could not find it, that if you tell the audience that you will find it later, it sets the audience up for wanting to see more of the show.

When using the cup to produce the egg, I would just produce it and then remind the audience it was from the earlier trick with the egg bag. I would use a comment something like "I told you I could find that darn egg". I would give the audience a small breather then hit them with my final load.
Ray K.

Till we meet again!
thejohn171
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In my show, the cups and balls come towards the middle of the show. Why, I really could not tell you. It just kind of screamed "Put me here." As for a quick little tid-bit. In Mark wilsons complete course in Magic, they have a nice little cups and balls routine. I like that one a lot. I use part of it in my routine. Reason being, out of the magi I know, I have yet to see one perform it. Second of all... Its a nice routine to build off of. I don't use all of it... just a few pieces here and there which make a really nice routine...

-John
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