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micromega New user 71 Posts |
I been practising the false display of four jokers with this trick for a while, but I'm not convinced about using it in the actual presentation. I'm interested to know how people have been presenting this effect and whether there is a significant advantage, in terms of shock value, to using the false display as opposed to just going right into the effect. I have to admit that I have been holding off presenting this effect because I've been uncomfortable with the false display.
Thanks everyone! |
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frog52 New user Iowa 62 Posts |
I was not too happy with my display either, but then I saw the demo on penguinmagic.com, and it looked as contrived as mine. If it's good enough for a dealer demo...
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magiczim New user Philly 67 Posts |
The 4 joker display is not necessary. I used it a few times, but it does not add much to the effect. as long as the rest of the presentation flows well, it will get you great reactions...and perhaps the desired "N.F.W!"
_Zim
"We live within the recreation of others" - René Lavand
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Matt Malinas Inner circle Transylvania 1367 Posts |
I second magiczim's oppinion.
the false display seemed kinda odd to me as well so I just gave up using it. I still get awesome reactions performing this. -Matt
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
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tomrav Regular user Middlesbrough,UK 167 Posts |
I'm assuming the false display you are talking about it the Elmesley count. In which case, there have been lots of threads on this forum offering help for the Elmesley Count which a simple search will bring up. It should just simply look like you are counting the cards by pealing the cards individually off the packet with your left-thumb (unless you are a leftie like me, in which case it's your right thumb.)
An excellent source to learn this in more detail is Card College Volume 2 by Roberto Giobbi. This teaches lots of false counts, the teaching in Card College is of a very high quality. Hope this helps. Tom Rav |
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DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
I believe the display is a form of the Hamman count to show four jokers at the beginning of NFW.
Cardamagically, <<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
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dduane Special user Bridgewater, MA 784 Posts |
Hi,
I use the false 'block' count - but don't call attention to it. I just do it as an incidental move while talking before I 'start'. I think it helps plant a suggestion of 4 jokers - and later on they awear they saw 4. Just my thought on it... D. |
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micromega New user 71 Posts |
No, I'm talking about the 'Hamman' type count at the very beginning that is offerred as the 'advanced handling' version of the effect.
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Jamie D. Grant V.I.P. as seen in Ripley's Believe It or Not! Twice! 2413 Posts |
Hi,
Even though I'm pretty happy with my opening count, I still just start off the effect saying, "Here's a trick with the Jokers from 2 old packs of cards. I thought someone should use the jokers for once..." I never actually say the word, 'Four' but it seems to work rather well: MF NFW My 2 cents, Jamie D. Grant
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krowboom Loyal user Chicago area 233 Posts |
Showing 4 jokers at the beginning of NFW is what amazed me when I first saw it. I always perform it this way using a Hamman count. Since I don't do it another way I can't say whether an alternative way is as effective, but I have a feeling that showing 4 jokers at the beginning is still the most magical way to present NFW. Only my opinion of course.
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loyaleagle Special user Montgomery Village, Maryland 567 Posts |
Wow this is an old thread....
Yeah I actually don't use the false display in the beginning. I have a pretty nice Hamman Count, but I have never been able to adapt it with the NFW cards. I guess it's hard to show 2 as 4 as opposed to 4 as 9...also I find the "gimmick" for NFW really gums up my count. Usually I just say I had a "packet of jokers" and sometimes I'll even admit that one of them is already face down (the first count "shows" 3 jokers). Then shake and it's 3 face down, then visibly turn down the 3rd, then presto, finish. I try to make the trick go a little longer by asking them how many cards are face down at different points. When I visibly turn down the 3rd, I ask, and a lot of people jump ahead and say "four" and I try to comically slow them down and show the one is still face up. Then I give them a shake and say "NOW all 4 are face down" (comical because of course nothing happened). I have never really seen the count for the opening done well...just a few people I've seen do it fast and it just blows right by the specs.
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ejohn Special user Atlanta 720 Posts |
I believe the effect IS strengthened by showing four Jokers at the outset. Here's how I do it. Starting with the J(s) on the bottom of the FD packet,I patter about a trick with four J's, doing the flustration count to show four, and returning the fourth J(s) to the bottom. Then, pattering about how lay folks turn over cards, I turn the packet FU, twist off the special J, and flip the remaining packet FD. I deposit the D/F J onto the FD packet in my palm-up hand. Now pattering that magicians do it differently, I rotate packet hand PD and then back PU once or twice to confuse. Next, with my free hand's index finger, I slide out the FD J on the bottom, turn it FU, and deposit it (discrepant but not noticed) on the packet. I am now in position to show all four turn FD one at a time. Anyone have a better handling?
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ejohn Special user Atlanta 720 Posts |
I believe the effect IS strengthened by showing four Jokers at the outset. Here's how I do it. Starting with the J(s) on the bottom of the FD packet,I patter about a trick with four J's, doing the flustration count to show four, and returning the fourth J(s) to the bottom. Then, pattering about how lay folks turn over cards, I turn the packet FU, twist off the special J, and flip the remaining packet FD. I deposit the D/F J onto the FD packet in my palm-up hand. Now pattering that magicians do it differently, I rotate packet hand PD and then back PU once or twice to confuse. Next, with my free hand's index finger, I slide out the FD J on the bottom, turn it FU, and deposit it (discrepant but not noticed) on the packet. I am now in position to show all four turn FD one at a time. Anyone have a better handling?
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chicane Elite user New Zealand 465 Posts |
This was my solution years ago. I still do it and will be out strolling with it tomorrow.
Take the setup as described in the original instructions. 3 A's face down, two jokers face up with you know what on the top face. Take one more regular joker and place face up on the bottom of the stack. Show stack and flash the bottom card (back) because you can. Remove the bottom card then go straight into a regular biddle count, counting from the top. Specs see 5 Jokers during the count and your extra J ends up back on top. Hand it to a spectator and ask them to turn it face down in their hand. Now you go into the regular presentation. After each count the spec is asked to give his J a twist. The Jokers in your hand turn face down one by one. At the final reveal you have the 4 Aces and the Spec has the only Joker. Clean and simple. |
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jimmyj Veteran user 343 Posts |
Hello All,
I use Mark Farrar's suggestions on the opening display and patter. Do a search, here at the Café, on his name and NFW and you'll be able to find it. You can also find it by doing a search on Google, with the same items-His name and NFW. It uses a fifth Joker and it works very well. And I really like his patter ideas. Jim. |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
What if you use the five joker idea but the fifth Joker is a standard D/F (Five of Spades on the back). Before the routine, force the 5S on a spec. Show five jokers, place one aside (5S D/F). Do the twisting bit, and then show the jokers have turned to aces. Pick up the final joker, do a through the fist flourish to change it into the selected 5S.
Have no idea what the presentation would be. Haven't worked this out at all as I don't own NFW (I know, I know...). Just a concept, really.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I'm mostly a coin guy so what do I know... But I do use the count to show all 4 jokers up front. I think it works well though you don't need to use it to do the trick and have it be completely believable. It took me a little while to get the count down right but I got it now and do the trick that way all the time.
There's actually 2 ways to start if you're going to show the 4 jokers upfront. You could also start as the demo on youtube does with a joker on top and bottom of the face down packet. I prefer to start with the packet face up with the jokers on the bottom and start the count from there to show the 4 jokers. I think showing the 4 jokers upfront adds even more to the amazement of the change to the 4 aces at the end of the trick. Again, it is not necessary to use the count at all as you can simply imply that you have 4 jokers though you do not actually show 4 of them. I think it flies by people as the cards start to flip over in the effect and by the time the Aces show up it is forgotten as to how many jokers there actually were, by that time it's all about the Aces and amazement. I've done it both ways and both ways work and are effective. I just like doing the quick count upfront as it seemingly makes more sense to me. Anyway, NFW is an amazing trick and one of the very few card effects I do on the regular. It always, absolutely amazes people. I love it! -Mb Oh and loyaleagle, here's a vid of the count being done very nicely. This is the way I learned it actually but ended up doing it the way I describe above which still uses the count to show 4 jokers. I loved this handling. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_d-e_3SoGE
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
A count that I've used for other tricks to show two cards as four is this Hamman Count variation:
Get a break under the two cards at the face of the packet. Hold the packet in overhand grip. Slide the first card to the left, taking the cards under the break with it, but maintaining the break above them. Place the single card in your right hand on top of the packet. Repeat the procedure as many times as you need to to show four or more cards. Very simple to do.
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Mano Inner circle 1028 Posts |
I believe showing the 4 Jokers add a bit more magic to it.
I never liked the orininal handling where one really turns just two jokers face down and that is the trick. So I came up with a handling that turn them all face down one at a time and vice versa, so for that it is important to me to show the 4 jokers right from the get go;the count I use is the DM and sometimes the hamman count they both work well in this effect. MT. |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts |
To show 4 jokers just do Brother John Hamman's Flustration Count. Not to be confused with his Hamman Count.
Best, Doug L.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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