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JSBLOOM
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Magician hands out deck to be inspected and shuffled.
Magician retrieves deck, goes through it pattering what great job the spectator did shuffling the deck.
Magi now claims he will try an impossible trick. One most magicians will never try, but if he fails, he will fail with dignity.
Magi turns his back and has spectator deal cards 1 by 1 on table until they want to stop. spectator stops, shows card around then deals it facedown on top of pile.
This card is buried with rest of deck. Magi has them cut deck into 3 piles then gather in any order and has them shuffle the deck. Magi turns around, retreives deck, then places one card on bottom. Magician claims under impossible conditions, he thinks he has found their card, but if he fails, he will fail with ( audience says DIGNITY...) Magi shows it around but it is NOT their card.
Magi claims he will try something alittle bit more possible.
Cards are dealt from top of deck and a card is selected (no force) and turned face up for all to see even magi. Magi fans other cards to show they could have selected any of them.
The card is flipped over and seen to be placed on the table facedown.
Magi claims he is going to play a game. Magi shows 4 cards from deck, removes them and has spectator pick one. Suppose the 7 of clubs. Magi claims he will it turn over 3 times so fast they will not catch him else he will find the first selection or pay them $100! He claims if he fails again, he will fail with....
Needless to say, 4 cards are shown and under impossible conditions magi makes the 7 of clubs flip over 3 times. Magi then claims even though they did not catch him once, he will attempt to make the 7C in his hand change places with 1st selection on table, but if he fails, he will fail with ......
Magi waves card facedown, turns it face up and it is now the second selection!
Magician says, wait a minute, if the second selection is here it can not be other there, right?
The other card is turned over and it is the first selection.
Effect is based on a Marlo idea and one move from the Illusionist. Requires only one gaffed card and some sleight of hand.
Thoughts?
MagicbyCarlo
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I have a title for this effect: "Convoluted beyond belief." My reading comprehension is pretty good and this failed to engage my interest. Perhaps it plays better than it reads. I also read it to my wife. She said she was also confused and disinterested by the plot.

Too much action before anything happens.

Just my opinion.
Carlo DeBlasio
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<BR>and all around fun guy!
Tom Dobrowolski
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I would agree with Carlo here. It's a bit confusing for spectators to follow what all has transpired and the whole process is very procedure oriented with all the dealing, etc. Also just my opinion.
silverking
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Compare your description with one for "Twisting the Aces".

"Magician simply twists the deck in hands and each time he does a different ace turns over"

Now read your description again.....man it's long.
Perhaps yours plays better than it reads.
Eric Falconer
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Had to read through 3 times before I got the gist of it.
Sort of a Transposition of the first selection and second selection... right?

There are many simpler tricks that accomplish this effect. Chicago opener comes to mind...

Define your effect in one sentence, and then take the shortest route to it. Try not to add moves, gaffs or unnecessary business. Instead try to remove these things to purify the effect.

Tommy Wonder has some great essay's on this in his "Books of Wonder" as well as Darwin Ortiz in "Strong Magic"
Eric Falconer

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JSBLOOM
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Thanks...
Perhaps this will help.
A card is selected, for example, 6 of clubs.
It is lost in a shuffled deck while magicians back is turned.
magician incorrectly divines the card.
Magician claims he'll try something more do able.
A card is selected, say 7 of hearts and everyone one sees it.
This card is cleanly seen to be placed on table.
Magician then plays a game and makes a card turn over 3 times, for example Ace of Spades.
Magician then claims he will make the Ace of spades change places with the 2nd selection. After waving it over the tabled card, he turns it over and it is the 7 of hearts. The tabled card is turned over and it is the 6 of clubs.
In reality it is a 3 card transposition effect.
silverking
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"After an apparent error, magician makes three cards change places with each other while in full view of spectator" ?
Eric Falconer
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Now find the quickest, uncluttered, and clearest route to silverkings description.
Eric Falconer

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wsduncan
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How does having three cards change place improve the effect of a transposition of two cards? The 'weakness' of most transposition effects is that the audience must be cetain where each card is to appreciated the effect. It would seem with three cards confusion would be even more likely...
JSBLOOM
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Why the quickest?
Believe it or not, the above routine takes no more than 3 minutes to perform.
When you wave the Ace of spades, it changes to 2nd selection which you said you would do. When they turn over the facedown card, they think they will see the ACe, but they flip it over and it is the first selection.
On the other hand, you could have 1 card selected in the same manner, back turned, cards cut and shuffled, then play the "turn over game" and reveal showing the Ace of spades has turned into 6 of clubs.
mxray
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JSBloom, I would like to 2nd Eric Falconer's suggestion of "Strong Magic".
Prior to reading it, I knew that some routines (while maybe quite difficult to do) didn't get as much of a spectator response as maybe others that were much simpler to do. I knew that difficulty doesn't necessarily equate a great viewer response.

But Darwin's book really helped open some doors for me as to [ why some routines and ideas are just automatically and inherently stronger than others. Yes, the performer makes a LOT of difference, but the material needs to be kept pared down as much as possible, and chronologically climactic.
I can't recommend the book enough.

Someone somewhere in magic once said a great magic trick should be one that can be described in just a sentence or two. (or something like that.) That is why they were asking you describe the effect.

Hope this helps,
MXRay
MagicbyCarlo
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JSBLOOM, here's the deal: You asked if this sounded (read) like a fun effect. You have received some critical but respectful feedback. At this point you set out to defend the plot, which by all accounts confused those that read it!
So my question is this: Did you really want feedback or were you looking for polite praise? If you're looking for the latter: Wow! The description fooled me, the trick must be great!
If you were looking for the former: Read the criticisms again. Some times in our desire to be original we end up re-inventing the wheel as an octagon it might be an original design but it doesn't work better than the original. Instead I suggest this, find a good transposition and try creating a colorful and original presentation. Something most card magic lacks. Why did the card change places? Did you develop a way to transpose a card in order to win a card game? Is it a strange thing that happens every time you play cards?

My problem is that I assume when someone asks my opinion that they really want it, however this isn't always the case, sometimes they're just looking for a pat on the back.

Remember praise is often polite, but criticism is often sincere.
Carlo DeBlasio
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twistedace
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Dude, the description bored me. Sorry man. Too much dealing.
JSBLOOM
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After reading the responses, I have decided I will eliminate the dealing by having them just cut to a card then bury it, cut the deck then shuffle it a couple more times. I am sure to most, it would be pretty challenging to find their card since the spectator is handling the deck and magis back is turned.
At this point, instead of doing the "transposition", I'll go through the cards and go into the twisting game, if I win I do not have to find their card, but if they catch me,I will find their card or pay them $100. After I win, I'll tell them I'll find their card anyways....I'll just transpose the card they think turned over with the selection.
Pete McEwen
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A good magic effect can be defined in one sentence. Think of all the best tricks and they can be defined in one sentence.

Also where do you plan on doing this effect? Table Hopping - no chance. maybe in a formal close up environment but it would still be boring. simplify it to only magic happened and people will be impressed.
The magician formerly known as SPEEDcuber
"no one will believe the things we do if we don't believe them ourselves." - Slydini
PeteMcEwen@mac.com
silverking
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Maybe if you could replace the "magi wins and the spec doesn't" part of the routine with something else that motivates the trick and helps move it forward without entering into the spec as a sucker trap.

Don't get me wrong here, I applaude you for developing a trick from scratch.

I would still like to read YOUR one line description of your trick.
I find distilling things to a single line describing the effect actually helps YOU focus the trick more than it helps anybody else.

And to answer your original question, yes it's starting to sound like a fun routine!
MagicbyCarlo
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Quote:
On 2006-08-04 12:11, JSBLOOM wrote:
After reading the responses, I have decided I will eliminate the dealing by having them just cut to a card then bury it, cut the deck then shuffle it a couple more times. I am sure to most, it would be pretty challenging to find their card since the spectator is handling the deck and magis back is turned.
At this point, instead of doing the "transposition", I'll go through the cards and go into the twisting game, if I win I do not have to find their card, but if they catch me,I will find their card or pay them $100. After I win, I'll tell them I'll find their card anyways....I'll just transpose the card they think turned over with the selection.

Oh man, I'm just going to sound like I don't like anything, but I will give you this last opinion.
Challenging an audience to catch you is one of the worst plots ever. I discuss this ad-nausium with regard to Monte type routines (See http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=4663239 for more detail). The problem is that, if the audience is challenged to catch you in order to "win" and they don't, they are losers. If they are challenged to catch you, how far may they go; may they grab the cards and show you are using a gimmicked card? No one likes to be a looser it lacks entertainment value.
The other problem is what are you trying to convey? If you're trying to show your skill this idea is less than compelling:

Pick a card, loose it in the deck. I really don't want to find it, but I'll play a game with you that you can't win because of my enormous talent. If you happen to win I'll reward you by finding your card. Oh, sorry you loose, well let me find your card anyway because we really need an end for this process.

Now picture it this way:

Sir/Miss, please select a card, I will turn my back as you do this (helper chooses the 6 of hearts) put the card back in the deck anywhere and shuffle the cards. Satisfied? Great. Don't forget the card, repeat it in your mind the name of the card three times. Have you done that? Yes? The card you are thinking of is the Jack of Spades? No? Well I had a one in 52 shot and it would have been impressive if I got it. Let me show you something I can actually do. Four cards name one of them. The seven of clubs? Good. The seven of clubs becomes enchanted; it thinks it’s a star! You can't keep the darn thing from turning face up! In fact the seven of clubs has so much confidence that it thinks it’s a better magician than me, look it has changed itself into the six of hearts...That was your card? Wow, I hate being outsmarted by a spot card!
Carlo DeBlasio
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<BR>and all around fun guy!
Reis O'Brien
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It's good that you're trying to think creatively. Now trim the fat off of the idea and hone what is essential to the effect.

Don't give up!
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur

http://www.myspace.com/liar_4_hire
JSBLOOM
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Thanks for all the great advice.
Credits for the idea go to Bill Malone.
Ander after reading the comment above from Carlo, perhaps I should do this as story of what happenned to me.
Magician played the game with me and found my card any ways.
mxray
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Quote:
On 2006-08-04 13:37, SPEEDcuber wrote:
A good magic effect can be defined in one sentence. Think of all the best tricks and they can be defined in one sentence.


While I agree that most can be be described in a minimum of words, I would have to disagree with the "one sentence" part.
Take for example:

"A spectator selects and signs a card, which is then turned over and covered by spectator's hands. The performer then pulls a paperclipped card from his pocket, unfolds it and it is the spectator's signed card. The spectator lifts his hands, turns over his card, and it is blank, except for the handwritten message ' Happy Birthday, _______' (Spectator)."

A nice effect, but to accurately describe it in one sentence, once would either have to exclude important aspects of it, or else end up with a very long and unweildy single sentence.

MXRay
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