Greetings Everyone!
Most of my magic is stand up or strolling but I do have a few favorite effects that require being seated and doing some lapping.

I often perform for young spectators (anywhere from 4th grade to high school) and even though I think I have a non-detectable lapping technique and have structured my routine so there is sufficient time lapse between the lapping and the final climax/revelation, I still have kids sometimes looking under the table to see "where did it go?"...or "how did he do that?"

I really wonder if it is my "fault" that they do this. After all, if something disappears or changes into something else, perhaps I too, with no other explanation, would look under the table to see if I could find an explanation for the trick. I think that kids are more likely to do this than most adults.

It's extremely rare for me to be at a table with a table cloth so that option is out. Many times, I just sort of raise my legs by lifting my heels off the floor to make it harder to see anything in my lap.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Perhaps my technique or routining could be improved but I really suspect that people look under the table because they have no other explanation how the trick is done. Have any of you had this problem?
Thanks!
Blpprt

I'm surprised that kids want to look under the table since it sounds like you're doing everything right.
Very likely it is your technique or lack of misdirection.
There should not be any indication that you hand came near the table's edge.

I suppose that one thing you could do is that when they start to look below you could slide your chair back, drop your hands to your lap and ask what the heck they're looking for.

If it was undetectable, they shouldn't be looking under the table. BUT, if you amazed the sense out of them, they will look everywhere for the lapped object. And they may look under the table. If you lap it, and they automaticly look under the table, you are doing something wrong. If you lap it, and they are amazed, don't know where it is, and only look under the table after a while, after looking other places, then it's ok.
Somjething I do is when they start looking for the object, when, and IF they finally DO look under the table, I bring up the object while they are looking under, and put it in front of them, or under their glass, etc.

Hi blpprt,

Congratulations on using lapping. Personally I love lapping and I think a lot less people are using it these days. As for advice:

Recently I sought out and learned some very simple but important things about lapping. Lapping, like most techniques in magic is a means to an end, and not an end in itself. If you use lapping to make something vanish, have something important to do after you make the ditch. This will keep the spectators mind on a new stimulus. Also, when lapping, make sure you have ample misdirection to come nbear your lap. You should make anh important point while leaning over and being tense, then relax, lean back and let one hand drop to your lap.

If you say, lap a salt shaker out of a napkin, there should be no one looking at your lap. To them, nothing has occured. Once you show the vanish, let it sink it but not too long. They will start looking around if you wait too long. What's most important is that you create the illusion of not coming anywhere near your lap.

Its also a good idea to use lapping scarcily. You can get away with it a couple times but too many and they will catch on. I learned that the hard way.

I hope this helps.

Ben

The other post may well be correct, but I think kids curiosity is greater than adults and they have no inhibition about looking around. I also think that children haven't learned how to enjoy the mystery the way adults do. Sometimes they feel challenged by being fooled and feel compelled to find out how it works.

Speaking for myself (who NEVER performs for children, so take this for what it's worth) I would not use any method such as lapping that leaves an item it a location that's visible to wandering, suspicious eyes.

Noel M, you are correct. Some younger kids (4th grade to 6th grade especially) will still look under the table at times. You could do a perfect vanish and if your sitting at a table, there are certain younger kids that will look under the table out of curiosity, that's just the way certain younger kids are.

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the responses so far. Cory and Ben, you have given some good strategies. With regard to children vs. adults...children are more impulsive but from my experience, the reason why I like to perform for them is they are less analytical than adults and more open to mystery. My strongest reactions have always been from kids. When I hear a big "woooooooaaaahhhh!!! Did you see that???" I feel pretty darn good about the magic I'm doing. I think its mostly, like mentioned, that adults will not be as prone to duck their heads under a table as kids would.
Please keep the suggestions coming!
Thanks to all,
Blpprt

So...if Tbaer is correct:
>Some younger kids (4th grade to 6th grade especially) will still look under the >table at times. You could do a perfect vanish and if your sitting at a table, >there are certain younger kids that will look under the table out of curiosity, >that's just the way certain younger kids are.

What are the options?...move quickly on to a new trick or produce the object when they are looking under the table?
What if its an object that can't be produced because it was something that was transformed into something else?
Blpprt

Then you have to ditch it. But remember, don't run when noone is chasing you. (Unless you are in a hurry to get somewhere, but that's beside the point...)
Don't lap it, then immediatly stuff the thing in your pocket.
There are some really good points here. Adults are very skeptical, but don't always think like kids do. Kids, feel it as a challenge, and they want to proove you wrong. (While sometimes adults can do this as well, I find kids do this most.) And, most times when I am doing stuff for kids, versus stuff for adults, the kids come up with the craziest ways as to how you did it. While adults know that it's just sleight of hand, but where still amazed. Even though it's not real magic, how did he do it? When I perform, I don't make people think I am a real wizard or sorcerer. They know that I'm here to use sleight of hand to entertain them, and let them have a good time. But kids will often think that I am a REAL "wizard" and then they will try to mess me up, and proove me wrong. But, after a few tricks, we get warmed up, and they don't really see it as a competition. They just sit back, relax, and have a good time.
But those are just some things I have noticed with adults and kids. It's not always the same. Sometimes an adult WILL think that I actually posses powers. (Which is kinda weird) But most often, this is the case.
Teenagers on the other hand, can be a handful. But you just got to deal with your audience in a way that will let them relax, and be entertained.
Just a few words.

Two suggestions. One: Have you studied Slydini's ways? Two: Have something goofy in your lap when the kids looke there and they see something totally disconnected from the magic props.

Also, learn to clean up right away, ditching or re-producing the lapped item.

Ans...as Ken Brooke preached "Don't be greedy with a method."

Just a couple of thoughts;

1) Where did it go? In the story of what you are doing, what happened to the stuff that dissapeared? IE account for the effect. If A becomes B, and you have a purpose for B, then the action continues. If A becomes B for no reason, the audience may well wonder where A went.

2) Venue stuff;
a) you are likely welcome to put forth a tablecloth especially as a sort of stage setting.
b) you may want to explore the old "vanishing servante" thing which permits you to stand up and take a bow leaving nothing in sight.

Again, just a few thoughts. hope they are of use to you.

At a table I think it's natural for younger people to look under the table.

if they are looking under the table right when you lap, then it's probably a technique/body language/misdirection/blocking/routining issue.

if people look repeatedly at the same moment, that's probably a blunder of some sort that needs immediate attention.

if someone occasionally looks, that means they are no longer being directed by your presentation/gaze/body language at that moment. something has broken the "spell".
determine what it is and strengthen that moment somehow.

if they look after the trick is over, then they are probably just searching for a solution that does not exist.

figure out when they look and determine a modification to your routine accordingly.

Greetings All,
Yes, I'm very familiar with Slydini...in fact, I have all his books and met him personally in the 70's in New York for a personal show in his apartment studio! Aren't I a lucky guy!?!
OK...let's get specific...One of my favorite effects is the Sucker Torn and Restored Napkin. I'm sure many of you know this one.
So...I've ditched the torn napkin in my lap and at the end have revealed two restored napkins.
I think the best solution from what I've read so far is to launch immediately into another trick. I've thought of the old, classic excuse to get some pixie dust out of my pocket to get rid of the torn up napkin but, in my mind, that's even more obvious than a poor lapping technique.
Hey, maybe I can use one of the restored napkins to do Harlan's Starkle...or a similar effect that uses a napkin.
Has anyone ever tried to let the lapped item drop between the legs to further conceal it?
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
Blpprt

I've lapped things all the way to the floor to conceal them.

You would be amazed at how clean a vanish you can do with this. People are normally expecting for you to transfer from one hand to another, and it vanishes. With this, you can do it all in one hand. You just have to be sure not to do it too quickly. Delay the moment of magic from the actual move.
I have been playing around with something recently. I use the same principal. Delay the moment of magic from the move. The move is more pshycoligy than a sleight, but from what I know, I have made this up. I have been frying people with a simple vanish. I was with a few friends, and they asked me to make a paper ball disappear, I transfered it from one hand to another, and made it vanish. They said "Ok, open up your other hand." I did, and it was empty. They went nuts. I have done it about 5 times since then, and they are still amazed.
(All you have to do is toss it up in the air a few times so they are used to seeing it in your hands. Simply put it in your pocket while you are talking, and then bring your hand up as if it contains the article. Transfer it to your other hand, and make it vanish. Then show both hands empty.)
For some reason, this amazes them. Not too exiting, but its fun.

In Ron Wilson's book "The Uncanny Scot" he has a fabulous gimmick that automatically gets rid of lapped items as you stand up. You have to look it up and you will be amazed.

Otherwise, timing management will help you get rid of things. Just think about it.

If you want to get up after lapping the object, bring your hands down and move the chair back so you can get up. While doing this, just get the lapped object. Later on, when heat is off you, put it in your pocket.

Check out the Vanishing Servante. As Pete mentioned it's described in The Uncanny Scot.

I was talking about if you had to get up during an impromptu situation. In a situation which you have to lap during a show, a sevante would be good.

This is really too tehcnical a discussion for an open forum. Please get your point count up to 50 so we can move it to the secret sessions. Then we can discuss the real work.