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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Criss Angel's boy exposes Three Shell Game on National TV! » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Slim King
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I can't believe it.
Can you?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
nbps05
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I can believe it lol I just saw it.. I guess he is helpin all the idiots who lose lots of money thinking they have a chance lol but the best was that penn and teller thing I loved it iv seen it before and it alwayz makes me laugh they are just so cool lol
jtcavataio
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I think it was a lousy thing to do, but I am guessing that his ratings are such that its mostly magicians that saw the exposure anyway.
Jeff Corn
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The reason this bugs me so much is because, here in Albuquerque, we have a small group called Cheating for Charity. We go out to these events and fundraisers and do the Three Shell Game, Three Card Monte, and Fast and Loose for chips they get for donations. Now, we have to wonder how many people saw this and are going to come and ruin it for us.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
Police Magician
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I know this makes some people angry, but if you look at it from a crime prevention stand then it eases the pain. I also do Three Shell Game in my shows, lectures and seminars. If this means I need to come up with a better routine, then I will work on it. From past experiences with the general public, many will forget the exposure and get taken. I have witnessed this personally in my area. Remember, the mind only absorbs so much information. I don't think this will hurt anyone doing it for entertainment purposes.

Glenn
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EvilGenius
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Penn said they got kicked out of the Magic Castle for the cups and balls routine. Was that just part of the act or did they really get kicked out?
Steve V
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P&T were not kicked out of the Castle and have won awards from the Academy of Magical Arts...tis an act as was the 'exposure' of cups and balls that they have been doing for many years.

As for you folks worried about the pea issue, and I doubt it will be remembered since it as done almost in passing, this is what you do. Use a hard pea. There you go, the pea won't handle like they said and you can show that the show was about conning and they pulled a fast one on the spectator.
Steve V
Jeff Corn
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Good point, I just really don't like the fact that they exposed how it worked, when they could have just stated that the pea is where ever the operator wants it.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
Slim King
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In a recent interview Johnny Thompson summed up his philosophy..."If there's a profit in it."
Sad.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
rossmacrae
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I usually chime in with "quit fussing and get over yourself, the public doesn't really care all that much about the darned secret." But in this case, unless you're a complete klutz, to do the shell game at all you have to do it well. If you do it well, even an "educated" spectator won't catch it ... if you do it poorly, even an idiot won't be fooled.

It's a bit like [who said it?] the saying that if you're at all competent, you could paint your thumbtip day-glo orange and the public still won't catch on.
Slim King
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I'm a bit confused...Are you saying that even though Johnny Tompson told Millions of people HOW IT'S DONE they still won't know? They're that stupid?
I think you are underestimating people....
Or...Are you saying that I am insecure about my abilities, or that I perform it in a bad way?
Please explain. Have you ever been to Universal Studio's and seen me perform there?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
rossmacrae
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Quote:
On 2006-08-12 15:17, Slim King wrote:
Are you saying that even though Johnny Tompson told Millions of people HOW IT'S DONE they still won't know? They're that stupid?

I'm saying that in comparison to the other things on their mind (How am I gonna pay the rent? Will I get laid tonight? Should I have signed that release when the camera crew from COPS taped my arrest?) even if they do comprehend the explanation, pressing issues will drive it right out of their memories within a day.

As magicians, nothing could be more fascinating - if we see it exposed, we'll remember it, look up the details in a book, put it into our act ... but to "average citizens" it may be "kewl" but the next "kewl" web video will take its place in their memories (until 5 minutes later when the NEXT one eliminates the prior one ... and so on.)

As to your abilities, I'm sure they're superior - I'm saying that the effect in question is one that lends itself well to good presentation, but an inept presentation might as well be a full exposure. Unlike, say, Copperfield's "Statue of Liberty Vanish," which puzzles people to this day even though anyone can plainly see a big old giveaway TWICE and for an extended period if they know where to look on the screen (that coulda been hidden but nobody thought to do so).
magiGlen
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I still remember ther masked magician exposing the one where he's locked in a car and a big boulder is smashed on top and it blows up and I jsut got into magic about a year ago.
rowdymagi5
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Any exposure is unacceptable (my opinion)

Those who argue that it is okay in any fashion, must not have had their effects exposed. It is no fun performing an effect where some smart aleck tells everyone he knows how you did it, and he really does thanks to Penn and Teller, etc. etc.
Jim Morton
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Quote:
On 2006-08-12 15:17, Slim King wrote:
I'm a bit confused...Are you saying that even though Johnny Tompson [sic] told Millions of people HOW IT'S DONE they still won't know? They're that stupid?
I think you are underestimating people....
Or...Are you saying that I am insecure about my abilities, or that I perform it in a bad way?
Please explain. Have you ever been to Universal Studio's and seen me perform there?


Exposure is the most overrated issue in the field of magic. Not one of us today would be practicing magic if not for exposure. David Devant was drummed out of the magician society he helped create because he dared to publish a book on magic. Back in the thirties, Camel cigarettes included little cards that featured most of the major tricks that magicians were performing at the time. Magicians were outraged (that's what the little cartoon in Greater Magic refers to). All those tricks are still performed today, and, more importantly, continued to mesmerize people at the time they were printed. Ross is right, the only people who really care are other magicians or people who have a bent towards learning magic in the first place. The rest of the world has better things to worry about. I would also point out to you that none other than Dai Vernon also exposed the shell game as part of a proposed series of films for the general public (I don't think the project was ever realized, but you can see The Professor's explanation of the shell game on the "Dai Vernon's Secrets of Magic" video).

As to the shell game, if you think that most people don't realize that you are somehow stealing and replacing the pea, you are in for a rude awakening. The real trick is getting them to the point where they are sure of something and then yank the rug out from under them. There are many points in a good shell game where you can accomplish this, even when the audience is comprised entirely of people who know how it works.

In some cases, exposure does nothing to reduce the magic. I always thought Shimada was an great magician, but after I saw him teach his techniques at a magic lecture I was twice as impressed.

Having said all that, you might be surprised to find that I am mostly against exposure, but not for the usual reasons. I think that the biggest problem with exposure is not that it teaches people how things are done, but that it persuades people into thinking that they know how things are done, no matter how far off base they are, which can diminish the magic experience. Of course, this is not a new problem. Ricky Jay wrote about Charles Dickens engaging in this practice back in the nineteenth century. Fortunately, the people who seem most affected by this affliction are amateur magicians (like Charles Dickens), so I still don't worry about it much.

Jim
rossmacrae
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Quote:
On 2006-08-15 15:17, magiGlen wrote:
I still remember ther masked magician exposing the one where he's locked in a car and a big boulder is smashed on top and it blows up and I jsut got into magic about a year ago.

So you're the exception to my general point.

And if that's a razor blade in your mouth, stop that! And if it's a ticket ... EEEEEW!
Slim King
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Excuse, Excuses, Excuses,
I am taking my daughter to the Magic Kindom tomorrow.
Should I EXPOSE those people for who they are? Should I take the head off of Mickey? Show those kids how it's really done. They'll just forget...right? They are too worried about other issues to remember....right? The actors will have to strive to "Just Do Better" next time! Right?
Exosure is WRONG!
You guys need to THINK IT THROUGH.
Thank You very Much Smile
Dave
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
BobSheets
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The mistake, I believe, is in the perception of most magicians about the 3-shell game.

It has been exposed more than any other trick in magic. Everyone knows how the trick is done. Remember they think it is a game. The operator has to cheat to win. The spectator has the opportunity to "catch" him by betting. They are always wrong! Let's not change that perception. It's to our advantage.

Before I put out my work on the three shells knowledgeable magicians were fooled badly by the routine. I just worked a trade show and was so glad that I had my routine since I don't really care which shell is picked. You just have to stay ahead of the crowd.

There will always be exposure even by those who should know better.

Stay loose. bob.
rossmacrae
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Quote:
On 2006-08-18 23:01, Slim King wrote:
Exosure is WRONG!
You guys need to THINK IT THROUGH.

Just because I claim that exposure (especially in this effect) has far less effect than many magicians fear it might, doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. I just don't think it's worth going into a tizzy about.

Among the general public, nobody ... NOBODY ... remembers "the masked magician" enough to tell you his name. Neither can anyone (well, any but a scattered few individuals) recall the details of what he exposed, at least not with enough accuracy to spoil their ability to appreciate a magic show.

That doesn't mean "Hey, let's have more masked magician TV specials!" - just that magic is still very much alive.

"But it's WROOOOONG!!!"

Yes, it is. Now please get some rest, and go out there and entertain people, and be wonderful. Maybe you could include the 3-shell routine in your show - practice a bit, and I promise that even the audience members who "know the secret" will be entertained.
Tom Bartlett
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I do think some of you, have let this topic become as an emotional an issue, as many of the taboo subjects, like politics an religion. I have read this and other threads about this exposure. We need to remember, what Magicians should be doing, which is entertaining people, not defrauding them. If you are entertaining, you should not be so upset and if you are a hustler you should be elated, the more the sucker thinks he know the easier it is to take his money.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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