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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Criss Angel's boy exposes Three Shell Game on National TV! » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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theheartsfailure
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I agree with you rossmacrae I saw the masked guy when I was like 15 on tv and to be 100% I don't remember a thing that he said or revieled
memph33777
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The shell game and monte were invented by hustlers. Who gave the game to lames anyhow??? Lol. I can’t believe this! A game that was invented by hustlers is being perpetrated by people who are saying do it for anything but money!!! I don't think this is right! To me it’s the equivalent of people getting crack and saying it should be given away not sold! Crack is an evil drug and if you give it away or sell it still evil! I dare people get a con game that was invented by con men and say give it away but don't sell it! Lol. What a joke!
Faulkner
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"Head off of Micky...actors in the Magic Kingdom"??? Next I will hear there is no Santa.

In New Orleans I worked at a magic shop and every other "buzzed" tourist claimed to be able to beat the monte even though we would explain it is a scam (if the conversation came up) though we wouldn't say how.
I would throw a few (and I'm not that good) and it felt like a John Edwards show. They remember the one they got by random luck (or my poor work) but they forget the 4 losses.

These people will not see exposure if they threw beads at it and this is why the Monte will live on after we are all gone. I believe it is the same with most "exposed" magic.

A robot can do all the magic moves. The real magic is in the performer and there is no way that can ever be exposed.
memph33777
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I have a question? Do magicians entertain people for free or money? Singers dancers and everybody else does it for money. Is it alright for people to get on TV and show people how to 2nd deal, bottom deal, switch dice, etc? If we keep on giving suckers the game ain't gonna be no suckers left.
lynnef
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Ah this whole thread is about con v magic. What is it? 3 card monte is a con, yet Dai Vernon et al turned it into a magic entertainment. (ever see his 7 card monte?) The REAL cons of course are people like the Enron execs who steal a person's pension. As for the small time hustle, no big deal. Didn't Carter the Great get his start after being conned out of a coin? (ie he vowed to learn the trick, and it went on from there).
All in all, I'm not for exposure; and yet the clear cups and balls of P&T was very entertaining to watch. But no, don't expose if you want to keep the entertainment going ... everyone knows that you don't literally make the sponge ball disappear. But you don't have to tell where it goes to! same thing with the shell and peas!
Todd Robbins
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A number of years ago I saw a shell worker on 42nd St. here in NY. He had just taken a woman for a goodly sum of money. He rehashed the mark by showing her how "others" would cheat her and he tipped the work to her. He then resume play with her and took more money from her using the work he had just tipped to her. So much for the effect of exposure.

Has anyone had beefs while working shells or lost work because of the Criss Angel episode?
Professor Piper
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I know a handful, Todd, who no longer do "Salt Shaker through Table" or "Ash (lipstick) Transfer" because of Criss and his exposure.

I wonder, is your insightful, and in all respect, polite response and stance due to your true feelings...

Or because you were on his show?

Because, to me, exposure of any kind to the lay public is wrong and completely undermines the entire fabric of what Magic is supposed to be...

No matter how you want to paint it.

Sincerely,

Prof. Piper
(Terry)
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
Whit Haydn
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The shell game is not a magic trick. Everyone knows how it works. The more people know about the game, the easier to hook them into it and beat them. Criss did hustlers a favor.

The shell game is not a magic trick. Nobody's story is being diminished or changed in any way.
SteveTheMagician
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I find that the exposure of this trick is only an issue if you either (A) suck at it or (B) were using it to actually make money. I mean the game is a classic swindle. People know there is a cheating element to it. Which is why I don't think its a big deal. if a different trick were exposed... say, I dunno, sawing someone in half, that would be a different story.

Again, if it means that someone could loose their hard earned money because of this game, then the exposure of it is for the better.

It shouldn't be presented as magic anyway, it should be a story of how you got gipped, or just a little game of fun, nothing more. After all, it called the three shell game, not three shell illusion or something or other.

:-D
-Steve
Professor Piper
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With all due respect Mr. Haydn, while the Shell Game may not be a Magic trick per se, that does not excuse Angel for exposing it, or the other without question Magical effects he has tipped without regard to the Magical Community.

It's almost as if he is thinking, I'm a superstar, I can do whatever I want.

That, to me, is the complete opposite of what someone in his position should have as a mindset in regards to furthering and enriching our Art.

Just my 2 cents.

Prof. Piper
(Terry)
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
Todd Robbins
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Quote:
On 2006-11-28 23:26, Professor Piper wrote:
I know a handful, Todd, who no longer do "Salt Shaker through Table" or "Ash (lipstick) Transfer" because of Criss and his exposure.

I wonder, is your insightful, and in all respect, polite response and stance due to your true feelings...

Or because you were on his show?

I wonder if those that took out the salt shaker and ash trick did so because they are afraid of people knowing how it's done or someone commented on the method having seen it on Criss's show? And if the latter is the reason, how often it has come up? My advice to them is give it a month and no one will remember.

As for my view being tainted by having cashed checks from Criss, I will just say that exposure done by anyone means nothing. The secret to magic is not how the trick works. Effective magic performance transcends method. At its worst, exposure is just a slight annoyace to real performers.
memph33777
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There is a old saying, "those who cant do teach". I have lost all respect for guys like Darwin Ortiz, and Sal Piacente because they go to the biggest crooks of all, the casinos, and teach them how to beat people. It's just like a guy going to al qaeda and teaching them how to infiltrate the USA. Criss angel is a sucker who would never last 5 minutes as a street hustler 3cm/3sg worker. He is a lame with the game and we say in the streets "Never give game to a lame."
Todd Robbins
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Quote:
On 2006-12-04 21:06, memph33777 wrote:
Criss angel is a sucker who would never last 5 minutes as a street hustler 3cm/3sg worker.


Criss is lucky that he took the so very easy route and became a well known TV personality, and got the fortune that came with it, and not had to do the hard work of being a petty street hustler. I don't know why street workers don't do like Criss did.
Tom Bartlett
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Memph33777

Is being a street hustler about the money?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Police Magician
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Over the years, several magic tricks have been exposed. Some I still perform. As mentioned in my earlier post, people will forget. Just as time is a healer, time is also a stealer (taking their memory away about the trick). I agree with Todd. Although I don't expose it when performing it to show you cannot win, it has an impact on members of the audience and they leave knowing not to get involved with this.

Glenn
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Pete Biro
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If you are successful with the salt shaker and ash trick it is stupid to take them out of your repertoire for any reason.

How many more magicians are there now making money, buying tricks and creating new tricks since the Masked Magician or Blaine/Angel have been on TV? Plenty more.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Professor Piper
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I'm sorry, but I'm extremely confused here...


From the I.B.M. section here on the Café:
Quote:
All MEMBERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF MAGICIANS AGREE TO:

1) Oppose the willful exposure to the public of any principles of the Art of Magic, or the methods employed in any magic effect or illusion.

2) Display ethical behavior in the presentation of magic to the public and in our conduct as magicians, including not interfering with or jeopardizing the performance of another magician either through personal intervention or the unauthorized use of another's creation.

3) Recognize and respect for rights of the creators, inventors, authors, and owners of magic concepts, presentations, effects and literature, and their rights to have exclusive use of, or to grant permission for the use by others of such creations.

4) Discourage false or misleading statements in the advertising of effects, and literature, merchandise or actions pertaining to the magical arts.

5) Discourage advertisement in magic publications for any magical apparatus, effect, literature or other materials for which the advertiser does not have commercial rights.

6) Promote the humane treatment and care of livestock used in magical performances


From the S.A.M. section here on the Café:
Quote:
Step 2: Take the oath

"If accepted as a Member, I agree to do my best to elevate the Art of Magic
and to abide by the Constitution, By-laws, Code of Ethics and Ritual of the
Society of American Magicians.

I shall endeavor to cooperate with the Society in the promotion of its
objectives and to promote harmony among those interested in magic and to
advance the ethics of the profession.

I agree not to expose any modus operandi from stage, platform, television,
radio or in any manner whatsoever.


I am opposed to cheap literature wherein magical secrets are needlessly
exposed, or to the sale of professional magical effects in cheap miniature
form to the public.

I am opposed to needless and useless explanations of secrets to persons who
are not entitled to know them or who are not interested in magic.


I am opposed to placing any legitimate performer in a predicament while
that person is before an audience."

So what is the deal?


While Criss may not belong to either the I.B.M. or S.A.M. (I honestly don't know) he is the now three time "Magic Castle" Magician of the Year...

In other words an icon that our young and up and coming magicians are supposed to be able to look UP to, to see how they should behave....

As are many of those that have posted on this very thread.

Exposure is wrong...It will always be wrong...and I am ashamed of Criss Angel and those that think it's ok to divulge any secrets of Magic to the Masses, for whatever reason or however 'simple' the trick may be.

The keeping of our secrets is the very cornerstone of what sustains our Art!

It is either the rule or it isn't...

Has Magic suddenly changed because Criss says so?


This should be thought about guys:

Deeply.


Sincerely,

Prof. Piper
(Terry)
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
wolfsong
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I have to admit that I was upset by this as well when it first happened. But after thinking about it for awhile I came to realize that there really are no secrets any more. We live in a time in which anyone who really wants to can find out almost anything just by cruising the web. Just like you could find out how to build a plane
if you really wanted to. The real question is how many people really care enough to look. Most people just want to enjoy the magic or tricks or just experience the game. Not spend time that they have too little of digging up our secrets, and when they do run into someone like Chris they say how interesting then go back to things that interest them and forget what they saw anyway. Most people remember just enough to get into trouble. The people who I have pulled the wool over the most on were people who thought the knew how it was done.
Professor Piper
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While the short-term memory of the uninterest public is probably true...

It isn't the point, it's an excuse for the real issue:

Exposure is in violation of what Magic is all about...You cannot deny, do an end-run, or excuse it...

It is, what it is:

Wrong.

Prof. Piper
(Terry)
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
Todd Robbins
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Leaving aside the fact that we disagree on the topic of exposure (and leaving aside the insult that because I disagree I have not thought about it "deeply"), let us get back to the original subject of this thread, which was that the workings of a magic trick was exposed on TV.

This is wrong.

The working of a crime was exposed on TV. The three shell game is a swindle that is being used this very day to bilk people of their money.

The intention of that presentation was to show that it is not a game and if you "play" it, you will lose.

It is a message that has been presented before and will be presented again. Whether or not this presentation was effective in preventing anyone from losing their money is beside the point. It is a message that the public should know and it can not be stressed enough. If only one person decides, after seeing this presentation, to keep walking when they see the con being worked on the street, then it was all worthwhile.

It is possible that someone will see this presentation and think they now know enough to bet a cheat. If this thought motivates them to action, they will learn the original message the hard way. Here is a good example of "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing." The possibility that these idiots are out there should not deter anyone from presenting the message that you can not win at the Three Shell Game or Three Card Monte.

The whining of magicians that the presentation of the message makes their job more difficult is petty and self serving. They chose to present a crime for entertainment purposes, so it should be no surprise that their performance might be collateral damage when someone presents the workings of the crime. I use the term "might" for I truly don't feel what was done on this show will effect someone working shells in their act.

I would be very interested to hear what actual effect the Criss Angel show had on the Cheaters for Charity.


And more thing...I work the shells when I do close up.

Todd Robbins
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