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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The December 2002 entrée: Banachek » » Evangelists » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

noncom
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Birmingham, UK
125 Posts

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You mention in several posts that you gain much of your inspiration from watching the performance styles of "the evangelists".

Would it be your opinion that all of the TV evangelists who give "readings" are guilty of deliberate deception (using pre-meeting questionnaires etc), or is it possible to perform in such a style unwittingly (ie genuinely believing that the information they give out has been given to them by God)?

I identify myself as a Christian, but please don't fear to cause offence by speaking your mind because clearly nothing is more offensive than someone seeking to deceive others using their victims' most sacred beliefs (whether they be religious, astrological, psychic or whatever) for their own gain.

Also, I should note that (certainly here in the UK) the vast majority of those who call themselves "evangelists" are simply preachers seeking to share a message, and in no way associated with the kind of "miraculous revelations" of which you speak.

I'm interested to hear what you think, although if you think this topic's too much of a "hot potato" that's understandable.
It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it - Bananarama.
Banachek
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Houston
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Thank you for correcting me, I certainly have used the term Evangelists to mean the miracle workers that we see and not those that are just preaching. So please, if you see me use that term, please understand I am talking about the Peter Poppoffs and Bennie Hinns (sp) of he world.

You also hit upon another reason I find this personal, and that is the fact that I have a major problem with people taking advantage of people's personal beliefs for their own benifit via deception. This disgusts me and makes me very angry.

Since Poppoff there has been a downgrading of the trick methods. Most have smartened up and realized that they can still get the same effect by saying things like "somewhere out there someone has a migrain, God is healing it now, someone has chest pain, God is taking that pain away."

Noone can disprove that.

The amount of emotion and adrenaline that is running through the specators is incredible at such an event. I even felt it and I knew what was going on at Poppoffs events. I was brought to tears emotionally at times and had to remind myself of what was going on.

The psychology at such an even it perfect and has been mastered to the nth degree through the years. It is why I think we can learn a lot from them, but I would hope that people in our profession would be ethical enough to keep those secrets for use to entertain, not take advantage.

And you are also right about the fact there are many that preach that are not trying to take advantage but just trying to get their message out. We can also learn from them how to act on stage too, they are also influenced by the showman arond them on how to get thier message accross. If it works, people adopt it. They do that in all professions.

Thanks again for pointing this out
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
noncom
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Birmingham, UK
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Thanks for your reply - as gracious as ever. You didn't touch on one of my questions, so perhaps you'd allow me to put it to you again in a slightly broader context.....

Do you think it's possible to be an Accidental Cold Reader, in other words to use (some of) the techniques of CR unwittingly, and believe genuinely that your success rate is down to divine, psychic or intuitive forces?

Could I also take a moment to express my appreciation (as so many have done before) for your time here this week - I have found all your posts to be thoughtful, courteous and ethical. I have learnt so much, and for this I thank you.
It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it - Bananarama.
Banachek
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Sorry, thought I did answer your question when I said thanked you for correcting me. By that I meant that there are evangelists that are not aware of any self-deception.

Also, if one searches for Evangelists here they will find I correct a mistake, (major one) I have used the term evangelist very loosely, because there are certainly evangelists who are only trying to get their message out and not take advantage of people. However, in this forum I was pretty much talking about he Peter Poppoffs of the world. But as in any topic, we need to be careful not to lump everyone in a category together.

I have a good friend, scientist and performer by the name of Ray Hyman. Ray is a devout skeptic. Years ago he went into palm reading knowing that it were all a trick. After a while of doing palms he became convinced he had "the gift? that is was real. Until someone (a friend) asked him to give the same reading to a few different people, and at other times misread certain lines. He quickly found out that he was getting the same positive results.

SO to answer your question direct in one word "yes"

At least I hoped I answered it his time. Smile


I would also like to thank you and others for making the task this week so easy and welcoming in such a warm way. I really thought I was going to be toast once in a while Smile

Could still happen Smile
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
noncom
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Regular user
Birmingham, UK
125 Posts

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Thanks for that, I hadn't understood your previous answer as you have now explained it, and I'm pleased to hear that you also feel that there are "miracle workers" (of whatever kind) out there who are doing what they do in all sincerity. Whilst this doesn't (in my opinion) necessarily mean we can leave them to carry on regardless, it should at least alter the way we might approach them or their clients/followers.

Thank you again, and I hope you and your family have a Happy Christmas and New Year.
It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it - Bananarama.
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