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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » From Soup to Nuts » » Sankey Ethics (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Edmund Dantes
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Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this item, but I thought it would be of some interest to Café members. It certainly is a worrying attitude by Sankey Magic, if it's true. The following is an email received from MagicTricks.co.uk , I'm not really sure what the trading standards of this company are like either...

Hi,

Hope you're well. Many thanks for being a member of our
email update list.

If visiting our site, you'll notice we're having a
major sale on Jay Sankey products at the moment -
this is more than just a promotion and I wanted to
explain the reason we're doing it.

Last year, we signed an agreement with Jay whereby we
would stock his products. This agreement expired yesterday
and we decided several months ago that we would NOT renew
it. Jay's products have proved popular so why have we taken
this action?

Well, I believe it's the best decision to make in the long
term, both for you as a customer and us as a business.

The agreement we had with Jay was EXTREMELY constricting -
he told us what products we had to take, how many of them,
and when, regardless of the quality of them. He told us
when we had to run special offers, and when we couldn't run
them - he even tried to tell us how much we had to charge
for his products, and at one stage wanted us to agree not
to feature any negative reviews of his products!

Over the past year, we've found ourself constantly promoting
Jay's products above other items we stock, purely to keep up
with the volume of new items coming through from him. This
is great for Jay - he knows that whatever he releases, he's
already sold. However, in the interests of consumer choice, and
the fact that our product range should be decided by us, based
on what our customers want, I decided this wasn't the best way
forward. We're also not the only previous Sankey dealer to not
sign the new agreement.

This years agreement was even more restricting and the minimum
order quantities were higher than before. I have serious concerns
that the new agreement would have breached UK price fixing
legislation, which was another key factor in our decision not to
renew.

I realise that this will come as a disappointment to those of you
who enjoy Jay's products, and it's a shame that Jay wouldn't relax
the rules regarding supply. However, I do strongly believe that
no supplier (whoever they are) should have such control over the
future direction of ours or any other company. In the interests
of consumer choice, I think it's essential that we stock those
products that YOU want, and that we have the freedom to run
promotions and special offers when WE choose to.

While popular, Jay's product line made up a comparatively small
percentage of the items we stock, and whilst it's a shame to be
losing them, I hope you understand and appreciate the reasons
why.

I realise time will decide whether this was the correct course of
action to take, but I strongly believe it's the best decision for
all concerned (with the exception of Jay!). We can continue to offer
you the best product range around, totally unbiased and free of any
dictatorial agreements.

In the meantime, make the most of it! We've savings of up to 75% on
Jay's products, and obviously once they're gone, they are gone! You
can see the full list on our website or via the link below:-

http://www.magictricks.co.uk/prodlist.asp?cat=sankey

We've many new products scheduled from a variety of creators from
around the world, and look forward to bringing these to you very
soon.

With best regards

Carl Fraser
MagicTricks.co.uk
http://www.magictricks.co.uk


http://www.magictricks.co.uk - the UK's leading online magic tricks store.
Mad Jake
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This isn't really something that reflects Jay's business tactics as he, like many who produce magic do so to make a living. It is not uncommon to set minimums, guidelines and sale quotas in order for a retailer to continue to stock an individuals product.

Quite frankly without these guidelines, everyone would most likely be working at a loss, there has to be incentives for sellers and their also must be minimums to be met so companies and individuals make a marginal profit, and trust me it's generally not a fat margin. A good person to ask about this Joe Porper as he not only wholesales, but he jobbers too. Selling to wholesale houses like Murphys and others can be tricky, make wrong caculation on cost etc and you can lose your shirt over one product.

While it may not seem fair, it is a necessary evil and the way of doing business to try and insure you are still producing products in the future.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
duanebarry
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Yet according to the above Mr Sankey's latest terms were considered excessive and beyond any other norms, which would, in fact, seem to reflect his business tactics.
MagiClyde
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Unfortunately, This is not the first time I have run into complaints about Sankey's business practices. My local magic shop won't carry his stuff either and for the same reasons.

I have also heard that Sankey will not allow his stuff to be sold at magic conventions. Don't understand his reason here, either. Less sales means less money in his pocket.

Sankey, in many ways, is really hurting his own bottom line and is his own worst enemy when engaging in such business practices. Perhaps, when he quits being a "hot" commodity and sales start slacking off, he will start realizing the need to rethink his sales strategy.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
Rob Johnston
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Doesn't suprise me a bit.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
NJJ
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Sankey is offering a product to his customers (the magic shops).

If magic shops don't like his practices (which are strict but NOT unethical) they will not sign up with him.
sailorphil
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It's funny my daughter just called me downstairs to show me a magician on television that was "showing how the tricks are done"

It was Jay Sankey's kids show on TVO, not a bad kids show, but he was giving away a bit more than I thought was right, when he showed how to force a card. No big deal it generates intrest in Magic --- I GUESS !!

Some of Sankey's products are available through wholesalers like Murphys - dealers can carry those without signing any sort of agreement - we stock several titles from Sankey - but not his newer stuff. I met Jay at a lecture recently where he was selling his products to the lecture attendees cheaper than they wholesaled for. I offered to buy some products but he didn't want to sell them to me as I am a dealer.

I think there are good points and bad points to having this much control, the only good point I can think of is: it keeps a level playing field for Dealers, and can help a Brick and Mortar survive, I think the bad points are listed above.

Other dealers also have set retail pricing - you cannot discount their products - we like dealing with these suppliers as we know we cannot be undercut by bedroom dealers and the manufacturers themselves.

Phil
Review King
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Murphy's Magic distributes Jay's magic line now.

If anyone has ever come up with an effect on their own, it's like writing a song, or a store etc. You get very attached to them and quite protective also. Good for Jay watching out for his "kids"!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jimeh
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I think his unfortunate experience with Penguin Magic may have left him tightening the reins a little more than usual. I find the backlash in certain circles against Jay Sankey are disappointing. I've met him, attended his lecture and have bought at least a few of his products over the years. I have no problems with the man personally...
tgold65
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Sorry, but you boys need to grow up. This is business and he can put whatever restrictions he wants on his business relationships and if you don't like them, you can tell him where he can stick it (which is exactly what you are doing). That isn't a question of ethics at all, however, it may or may not be bad business on Jay's part.

While I can see how Jay can make a lot more money by selling direct to the consumer, that presumes that new magicians will find him. So cutting off his retailers is only a good idea as long as he can continue reaching new magicians who have not yet bought anything from him. So this might be a great business decision or an absolutely lousy one. But to call him unethical is completely incorrect.
Bill Palmer
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Actually, when you are doing business in the real world, there are certain guidelines that are mandated by law. One of them is that you cannot REQUIRE that a vendor take ALL of your line. This is a direct violation of the Taft-Hartley law.

The original case was settled between several franchise holders of Shakey's Pizza Parlors, Shakey's, Inc., and Co-ord, Inc. Shakey's was requiring that their franchise holders purchase all their spice blends, hats, aprons, shirts, sleeve garters, etc. directly from Shakey's, Inc. Co-ord was offering the same products for considerably less. In some instances, the products were actually purchased from the same manufacturers. After a year of litigation, the courts found in favor of Co-ord and the franchise holders.

This said, Sankey can place minimums on purchases. But he can't require that all of his vendors purchase his whole line. That is, he can't do it within the confines of the US. What he does overseas is a completely different thing.

Also, he can't restrict the sales of his products at magic conventions if the products are purchased through someone like Murphy's.

This wouldn't be the first dumb-a$$ed thing he did, though.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Magicray69
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Bill...

I always appreciate your comments. Right on the mark.

Ray
There was a time I had the blues,

the reason was I had no shoes.

Until I met upon the street

a man who had no feet.
AaronishMagic
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Well, business is business. No matter what categories it falls into
Dan Bernier
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Very interresting to find this thread since Jay Sankey likes to have any negative posts about himself or his products deleted so no one can know the real truth about Jay Sankey and his most recently unethical business practices. However, I can see that many people already have experienced the lack of ethics that Jay Sankey has when it comes to business.

BABOM has made several customers angry to the point that many of them have already, or are going to be filing complaints with the Ontario Consumer complaint office, as well as with BBB, and a few other departments.

You can view everything about the situation on Facebook where Jay Sankey cannot have threads deleted like he does here. You can even view some of the posts before they got deleted from the Café. Also, you can read the many rude and ignorant emails from Jay Sankey himself, even the ones where he pretends to be a guy named Eric.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/254344171244228/

I also thought it was appropriate to revive this thread because it shows that there has been on going problems with Sankey Magic where even dealers are not carrying his stuff anymore.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
rklew64
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Just helping the countdown to the deletion of this post by very objective and honorable moderators in 3...2...
Jimeh
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Love how the Facebook group chose my avatar as the one attached to the link.
terrillific
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I’m not happy with his customer service. I placed orders with his company on some DVDs and other effects but weeks went by and no shipment. The latest order was placed 5 weeks ago and I still have not received it. I’m not going to rant about it here. But I will say I’ll probably not order anything else from them again.
Steven Conner
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From time to time Jay really has some great items; however, as great as the products are, his service is something not to be desired. If one cannot deliver the goods, no matter what industry you're in, you shouldn't do business.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
Steven Conner
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Been trying to get product from Sankey since January. Eric says was shipped, never received, and all I get from this sorry @@@ is WOW! Jay's not any better. When it comes to service, on a scale of 1-10, Jay and his crew aren't even on the scale.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
Ba Ba Booey
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I've purchased a number of Jay's items from both online stores and from Jay himself. I've always found his customer service to be quite good. For example, I once bought one of his books. The glue from the envelope had somehow stuck to the back of the dust cover. I emailed to ask if I could get a replacement cover, and he sent me a whole new book instead. I asked him if he wanted me to send him the old one, and he told me to keep it or donate it to my magic club. Good service, in my opinion.
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