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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Serious Exposure of Sleights on YouTube (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicfan456
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Hi everyone,
I've been thinking about this for a while, I'm sure many here have differing opinions, so I beg your indulgence in advance.

I know the internet has made keeping magic secrets more difficult but I think we need to be more proactive about limiting the damage as best we can. Of course exposing certain "hot" internet tricks won't in the long run harm the serious performers with the true skills, passion, and abilities to make performance more than a series of simple tricks.

Still, when I see blatant posting of basic card sleights, explanations of many tricks, especially copyrighted videos, I cannot see how this can be good for the art. I recently stumbled upon a link explaining the mechanics grip. Some posters on youtube claim to be teaching fellow magicians, but judging by the comments on the videos and the inability to password protect them, I don't think this is a valid defense.
The extreme popularity of the "best trick in the world" which has gotten over 2 million views after being featured on the main page, it seems dangerous when explanations of card sleights (including that trick as well) are in reach.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone tried contacting youtube about setting some guidelines? I suppose if we all do our best to flag videos as exposure we could get somewhere. I look forward to your thoughts.
BlackShadow
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Quote:
On 2006-09-01 06:46, magicfan456 wrote:
Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone tried contacting youtube about setting some guidelines? I suppose if we all do our best to flag videos as exposure we could get somewhere. I look forward to your thoughts.


You are completely wasting your time. YouTube are not interested in subscribing to versions of ethical codes of minority interest groups. It's also perfectly legal to post small extract clips in the interest of not for profit education, review, comment which is known as "fair use."

Some young people have always been interested in how effects are produced. In the past they used to go to the library and read magic books. Now they look at the Internet. Some of them will become magicians in the fullness of time, some of them won't. Those that don't will forget it all, and magic as a performing art will trundle along just like it always has done, public libraries, TV exposure, YouTube or not.
Jonathan Townsend
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Magic will move with those who heed the muses.

Those who can't keep secrets are already pretty much a muggle market in magic.

The best most can do is learn to keep and respect secrets. That done and demonstrated, perhaps they may get offered newer material. Perhaps.

As far as the art goes is there really any great need for so many doing the same material?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
akumasan42
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUC0wnktYK8&NR


It is a little saddening isn't it?
Marvello
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Someone should flood YouTube with videos with false explanations, maybe using camera tricks and stooges (call criss angel for help) - that would be awesome.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
NeoMagic
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People who expose can be stopped... see this earlier thread on the same subject...

Help stop this kid exposing on youtube.com
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RandyStewart
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Ah well. People do unmentionable things every second of the day. First and most important thing is not joining them in the exposure efforts.

Somewhere, someone, just jumped off a bridge with no intent of surviving. Would you ever join 'em?
Cory Gallupe
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Search "magicians" on google video.
a 40 MINUTE video is there with TONS of street magic being revealed.
Rising card, cig thru coin, raven, center tear, bite out coin, and lots more. We can stop these people, but we have to try. There are THOUSANDS of peopleon youtube, google, and many more exposing hundreds of effects that have been amazing, and guarded for years, and now have just become public knowledge amongst people.

There have been tv shows on popular channels exposing secrets we have been guarding, all because some idiot has the know how, and wants to get some publicity.

My grandparents now know how I did a lot of the stuff that once amazed them.

Like I said, we CAN stop this, but it will be hard, and we will have to try.
Lets stop exposure. With a few minutes of searching on the web, someone could know hundreds of secrets. Just search "Magic" on any search engine.
There are websites dedicated to exposure.

PS, if someone could contact Jay Sankey, tell him that he is being exposed on google video. I tried to e-mail him, but I got no responce, and his video is still there.
BlackShadow
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Cory

1. You can't stop it.
2. It isn't hard to stop, it's impossible because it is legal.
3. Libraries and TV have been offering the same "deadly" cocktail for 100 years and we are still here, stronger than ever.
4. Learn some different effects or even slight variations, create your own stuff, and you will still amaze your grandparents. Magic isn't about doing what everyone else is doing. It's not about buying the flavour of the month or some recycled effect that the grandparents surf around on Youtube to find the secret for Smile It's about your own creativity and your own entertainment value.
5. Jay Sankey doesn't give a monkeys. He's probably glad of some free publicity at the expense of Googles bandwidth.
Cory Gallupe
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About the creativity thing, I agree 100%. I have been creating, new, and working on old for a while now. I don't like doing stuff as it is seen on TV, demo videos, or DVDs. that's why I like books. It always leaves room to improove, and make it your own. I also think that this "Flavor of the month" is getting kind of stupid. There must be at least a hundred different ways to levitate yourself, or someone these days. DO WE REALLY NEED THAT MANY???
The audience sees you levitate, they don't see method.
Like card manipulations. There are soo many different ways to produce a card, but a lay audience only sees the same thing. You can use 20 different methods, but the audience will only see you producing cards for 20 minutes. They don't see method. (Or at least they shouldnt.)
I don't know where the world of magic will go years from now. But its not looking good. This exposure is NOT a good thing.
I don't know how many people are looking at this exposure, but in a previous thread, there where a few thousand views of an effect on youtube. MOST by laypeople. If a few thousand people can watch a trick be performed, they can watch it be explained. And they have.

Could we at least stop people that are copywriting others material? Because that's illegal.
RandyStewart
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Well it depends on how the creator wants to handle it Cory. Some of these creators are aware of the problem and are doing something about it. Others know about it and could care less.

Take me for instance, I prefer good old fashioned confrontation and could care less if they called me a jerk. If I had something on the market that was truley original and mine in creation, I wouldn't be a very nice person to some but then again, I never wanted them to be my "buddy" either - especially if you just stole from me or exposed my brainchild. I'd know then you're not my friend.

This is also easy for me to do as I never got into magic to make friends with magicians.

Steal or expose something that were mine and you'd be busted up real nice. Smile

The rest and I could get along just fine.

Keep up the great work you Canadian superstar of magic. Smile
BlackShadow
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I'd agree with the copyright issue Cory.

The trading of ebooks, peer to peer sharing, posting of whole DVDs, or copying DVDs and then selling them is to be deplored. We whould all fight that and that is a fight which can have some effectiveness.

Posting of extracts for non profit comment or review and developing effects by doing your own version is however, simply advancement and personal creativity. That can't be stopped no matter how hard your try
Stephen Grey
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Quote:
On 2006-09-01 10:09, Marvello wrote:
Someone should flood YouTube with videos with false explanations, maybe using camera tricks and stooges (call criss angel for help) - that would be awesome.


Check out this one...fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnv4eZvy7Mg

How does he do it? Smile

~SG
Khopri
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Same way Criss usually does.
-TW
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I bet I'll live to regret writing this... but...

My opinion about exposure is... no one cares.

I have two internal 'sayings' that apply here.

"The average adult cares as much about magic
as you do about polo."

"In order for people to wonder about how the
magic is done, they would first have to CARE
how the magic is done. Most people don't."

Believe me, I love magic as much or more than
most magicians. I always have, and I always will.

BUT -- it is VITAL to one's sanity to be able to
ALSO look at magic through the eyes of LAYMEN.

To be worried about exposure is to be deluded into
thinking that people are wandering around giving
magic (even) a second thought.

They're not.

Sorry.

Here's a real-world example (and I'm sure you've
all had this happen to you):

Your best friend (who KNOWS you are totally, totally
a magic FANATIC) sees a magi on TV and tells you
about what he saw. The you ask what teh magi's name
was. And... of course the answer is "I don't know."

To paraphrase a book title "They're just not that into it."

Yes, yes, a teeny, tiny minority of people are inately
fascinated by it -- and that group of laymen
DOES seek out the secrets. But that group is
SO small, it's statistically zero.

So, don't sweat it.

The chances of you running into someone who ISN'T
a magician and who DOES know a lot of secrets, is too
small to lose sleep over.

Cheers!

-- TW
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-09-01 08:21, BlackShadow wrote:

You are completely wasting your time. YouTube are not interested in subscribing to versions of ethical codes of minority interest groups. It's also perfectly legal to post small extract clips in the interest of not for profit education, review, comment which is known as "fair use."



The key here is "small extract clips," not entire sleights, moves or routines. The guidelines for fair use are spelled out very precisely in the copyright laws of the US.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2006-09-21 01:42, -TW wrote:...The chances of you running into someone who ISN'T
a magician and who DOES know a lot of secrets, is too
small to lose sleep over...


My boss showed me the Balduci levitation and some Downs Palm sleights. Other staff know how to type "magic trick" on YouTube and freezeframe the videos.

It's getting interesting out there. And that's from performance videos. Will see what happens when they find exposure/teaching vids.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Cheety
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I remember seeing hummer card explained on youtube, the whole routine
Mostly Harmless ^_^
tony2514
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YouTube-schmooTube!

These kids on YouTube are doing what kids do - they're showing off! Let them get on with it.

I know that there are a lot of professional and semi-professional magicians on this forum and a great many gifted amatuers; and we all know that what makes a magical performance is not the trick or how it's done, it's the years of patient practice, patter and delivery.

It has already been said that most people will look at these clips and immediately forget what they have seen because it's too much effort for them to be bothered with.

Where magic is concerned, there are two types of people in this world. Those who love magic and those that don't. Of those that do, there are a further two subsections. Those who want to know 'how it's done' and those that want to be amazed. Luckily for us, the latter subsection is substantial. Finally, of those who do 'want to know how it's done' there are a further two subsections. Those who can be bothered to do it and those who can't. You cannot change the natures of any of those people.

As for showing how gimmicks, gaffs and sleights work - so what!? You guys should be accomplished and professional enough to know that it is your performance that counts. Give a kid a stripper deck and see how he does with a crowd of eager spectators. Heck, give him the keys to the magic store for all I care!! Give a pro a borrowed deck and watch him blow the poor schmuck out of the water.

All I can say is that I've studied and re-studied Bobo cover to cover and back to front, I have traveled the Royal Road to Card Magic a thousand times and supped at the cup of Mark Wilson's knowledge and no amount of YouTube watching is going to rattle me. It is the patience and dedication of the true magician that will always amaze the crowd. Bring it on!
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-06-14 14:07, tony2514 wrote:
YouTube-schmooTube!...All I can say is that I've studied and re-studied Bobo cover to cover and back to front, I have traveled the Royal Road to Card Magic a thousand times and supped at the cup of Mark Wilson's knowledge and no amount of YouTube watching is going to rattle me. It is the patience and dedication of the true magician that will always amaze the crowd. Bring it on!


"Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo.
So little time — so much to know!"

Sorry Jeremy Hillary but that argument is full of holes. Perhaps if folks read some earlier texts which discuss the importance of secrecy to our craft the issue would be less about the tricks than helping the audience get a chance to feel magic.

Magic as a performing art simply doesn't affect the audience in the same way as do other entertainment forms. This is where so many apologists for the mass market get it wrong. If the audience knows how the tricks are done, the performer is not offering the services of magician, just someone going through the motions in the same way a karate exhibition is not a street fight.

If we want to have secrets we may need to keep secrets.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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