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SIX
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Where can I learn this effect, I'm thinking sense Copperfield did it, its no where to be found.I know Williamson did it but he didn't tip the soource..Anyone know??
Lyndel
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wrote the theme to the TV show COPS!
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Have you tried Hanes House Of Cards?

:lol:

Lyndel
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David Williamson
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Hi Six

I made the routine up several years ago. David Copperfield asked permission and paid for the rights to perform it. I haven't, nor do I plan to, give anyone else permission to perform the effect.

Thanks for asking!

Dave Williamson
Vandy Grift
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Well, there you go. The originator has choosen not to release the effect. Modern ethics now dictate that you stop from trying to learn his method and devise your own method, then use his presentation but with a different handling. It's only right.

JUST KIDDING!! Looks like you're just gonna have to leave this one alone.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Skip Way
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Vandy, with the deepest respect for Mr. Williamson and without falling into the pit of discussing ethics, I agree with your first statement. If Six can reverse engineer the effect and develop his own technique and presentation independent of Mr. Williamson's technique and Copperfield's presentation, he has every right to present his original work. Inspiration comes from many different sources. Microsoft and Apple branched from the same idea. Ford, Chevrolet, Buick and Chrysler all branched from a single unique concept. How many methods are out there for bending a spoon, levitating a spectator or producing a chosen card? Good luck, Six. Focus on what you want to accomplish and think it through independently.

My opinion and curse the can of worms about to explode!
Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
Vandy Grift
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Oh Skip. I'm sorry, I don't agree. I think Darwin Ortiz says it very well in this post. Especially the last 4 paragraphs.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......87&0

Is there any irony here? I mean, I am lifting someone elses words to make my argument. LOL. But, I do think Mr Ortiz explains it pretty well. I happen to agree with him.

That, along with the fact that you have the inventor himself basically saying "leave it alone" should be PLENTY enough, to dissuade anyone from persuing the thing.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Bill Nuvo
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So what's wrong with asking about the trick as they have seen it. A person can look into and then begin researching the trick (possibly). Then they can start developing their own presentation of the trick. They can easily susbtitute other objects for the ones used in other's presentation.

But to also answer SIX's original post, he should look into Don Wayne's floating handkerchief and also Sean Bogunia's handkerchif items.

Of course the ROUTINE as David (both of them) performed it is off limits.
Vandy Grift
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That's fine Bill. I wanted to respond to Skip, but am not really intrested in having a deep ethical discussion. I'll say this though;

My question would simply be "why do you need this trick?" You saw it and you liked it, fine, but it's never been made available. Now, suddenly, someone "needs" or maybe just "really wants" the thing. My question is "why"? Why can't a person just say "you know what? I like that. It's a great idea. I love that premise. I wish it were mine, but it's not." And be done with it.

That's never an option these days I guess. It's just "I like that, I want that, I'm going to get it one way or the other and if I can't get it, I'll recreate it. Just as long as I get what I want. That's all that really matters".

It kind of reminds me of a scene in Martin Scorcese's documentary about Bob Dylan. In the scene a young man and a young lady are demanding Dylans autograph. The shove a pen and pad in his face and say "here sign this!". He says "no". They start giving him a hard time saying things like "c'mon sign it. Whats your problem?" Dylan says "what do you want it for" and the young man says "I NEED it". Dylan say "You don't NEED it, if you NEEDED it I'd give it to you"

That's how it seems with some magicians, they decide they need something and just demand that it be given to them. Failing that, the go and recreate it for themselves.

Note: I'm not making any comment on the Original Posters attitudes.(or even Skip or Bill's attitudes, I was just making a joke in my original post) I have no reason to believe this would be SIXs' attitude. But it certainly is the attitude of a lot of magicians.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Skip Way
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Quote:
On 2006-09-06 09:56, Vandy Grift wrote:
Oh Skip. I'm sorry, I don't agree.


I expected that and no regret is necessary. Divergent opinions among friends and peers are the stuff of growth.

Quote:
I think Darwin Ortiz says it very well in this post. Especially the last 4 paragraphs.


I agree to a point...and I believe his post indicates this difference. We learn by emulating those we look up to. Artists learn by copying the works and style of other artists. Musicians learn by copying the works and style of other musicians. Writers learn by copying the styles and ploys of other authors. So, too, do magicians learn by duplicating the acts and styles of other magi. Everyone must crawl before we learn to walk, run and leap.

So, I'm not surprised to hear a beginner or intermediate level performer say "I'd like to do Mr. Copperfield's such-and-such routine." Provided that he or she uses the experience to develop their own original works as they mature as performers. If a pro were to do this, I would be appalled and disappointed.

As a pro, I would no more copy Mr. Williamson's routine and Mr. Copperfield's presentation word-for-word, point-for-point than I would memorize one of George Carlin's comedy routines and present it in a comedy club as my own. It's hack. It's stupid. It's lazy...and it's wrong. BUT, if I work out a similar type of routine with a presentation unique to my style and dealing with the magical transposition of socks, underpants, bras, umbrellas...what have you...and, although the theme is familiar the technique and presentation are uniquely my own...am I stealing Mr. Williamson's work or working from his inspiration?

Quote:
That, along with the fact that you have the inventor himself basically saying "leave it alone" should be PLENTY enough, to dissuade anyone from persuing the thing.


The author rightfully reserves the authority to release or protect his creative work. We agree. However, if the public performance of this work inspires another to create a similar yet uniquely structured effect independent of the originator's technique, is there a crime? A violation of ethics? If this were the case there would be FAR, FAR fewer magic effects in the world...and even fewer legitimate performers (not an unhoped for environment by some purists, I'm sure.)

Quote:
On 2006-09-06 11:29, mrbilldentertainer wrote:
Of course the ROUTINE as David (both of them) performed it is off limits.


As usual, Bill, Vandy and I agree on this point...as stated in my original observation.

Again, my opinion offered with all due respect,
Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
Vandy Grift
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It's all good Skip. You've always been very reasonable and I respect you. You're a gentleman and I appreciate that. I also appreciate your comments.

I do understand what you are saying regarding developing a similar routine specific to your character,based on a public performance. However, I think the big thing to watch is where you get your "inspiration". I don't really consider seing something, then adapting it, to be creating something based on true "inspiration". It seems more like copying.

Publised works, routines in print, on DVD etc. That's one thing. Take them and use them. But in the case of this particular trick, I think it should be of the "look don't touch" variety. It seems to me that is what Mr Willianson would like people to do. It's just a matter of respect more than anything else. In MY opinion.

I don't know. Maybe I'm way off base here. I'm finding it hard to express my exact feelings one this. I think you understand where I'm coming from, even if you disagee with my viewpoint on this one.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Skip Way
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Absolutely...and fair enough. Besides, it well may be that I'm the one standing in left field and you'r ein the owner's box. I suppose it all depends on one's perspective and nature. Onward to other debates! Smile

Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
Bill Nuvo
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I agree let's move on. We all agree on the major issue and only differ on the finer points. Nice to see other's viewpoints though.
Boat
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I'm a little disappointed. I saw the heading about underware transposition and haven't heard a thing about jockey shorts or panties. What's with that? I'm looking for a trick where an overweight bald man's underware changes places with a hot young lingerae model's underware.

Anyone have any ideas?

Al
sniper1
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Who is david williamson ????? and this Copperfield guy everyone keeps talking about
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
sniper1
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Forget an underwear transposition , how about a costume change routine involving underwear , first boxer shorts , then normal looking underwear , then a polka dot swimming trunks , then a thong , well you get the idea
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
poprocz
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Quote:
On 2006-10-05 21:29, sniper1 wrote:
Forget an underwear transposition , how about a costume change routine involving underwear , first boxer shorts , then normal looking underwear , then a polka dot swimming trunks , then a thong , well you get the idea


I wanna hang out with dude, your mind and thought process intrigue me.
Not a brokeback mountain kinda intrigue so don't get scared. hehe
Mike T
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One Halloween as a teenager, a friend of mine performed a completely impromptu 'underwear transformation' after I'd let myself into his house wearing a ski mask and jumped out at him whist he was watching TV on the sofa. Apparently they transformed from a pristine white color....
Anyway, if anybody want to have a go at figuring out how he did it then they have our blessings to perform it.

Regards to all, Mike Smile
It's times like this I wish I'd listened to what my Grandad used to say...
sniper1
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Anytime you want popcroz , in the meantime ill order a fresh supply of lube .

nahhhhhhhh , personally I prefer women , but if ever start developing a taste for men ,youl be the one for me . { not really ill just book a session with my psychoanalist }
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
sileeni
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I think we need more people like sniper 1 on the Café.
Seems like a great wacky kinda guy who always has funny posts.
Awsome.

Sileeni................................................................
sniper1
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Tnks sileeni for the nice comments , in fact if you like ill be ready to ditch popcroz and date you for a couple of weeks , at least until I find a proper girlfriend , for my neighbors husband has stopped working night shifts for some time now :-P
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
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