Seems like a simple question but what spawned it was another thread. A magician, I assume, in another thread was horrified that Criss Angel was putting out a book of 40 of his effects. I wasn't surprised in the least.

Just reminds me of the punch line "we already know what you are, I am simply negotiating a price."

Well we all have to eat. We are all in business in one form or another if it is magic or another way to make a living. I live in America so being a capitalist is what keeps us going.

So I guess he does it for the money or the recognition. I am not sure which one is worse.

I understand that we have to pass our secrets to another generation. My understanding is Houdini did this to some extent also.

But I guess if you’re going to be the "Mindfreak", should you give away your secrets? Well no he is selling them so should you sell them? I just don't see why he does this is my point.

If they are not secrets from the show then I guess it is ok, but still seems strange and has a bad feel to me. I am probably in the minority here so please be gentle with me.

Who is "we" and which secrets are "ours" (in the singular) to treat as private property and dispose of as we see fit (sell in this case)???

Ok let me clear it up so nobody is language confused.

I understand that for magic to continue, it needs to start in another generation.

Seemed clear the first time, but that seems to have cleared it up. Now I didn't use "we" or "our" as they seemed to be wrong terms. Give me the red pen.

Perhaps you don't believe that magic should be passed to another generation.

I keep forgetting this is an English language class. My bad.

I have many tricks I do that are my signiture tricks. I also have learned many secrets from those who I look up to here at the Café. The third and most important element of this equasion is my God given talent. When I meet a young man with the God given talent that it takes to do my tricks justice I will share my signiture moves with him. In the mean time I would like to publicly thank "the godfather" Vinny Marini for helping me to become the "band shark", or rubber band magician that I am today.
VINNY U DA MAN
Al Angello

Seems the more I learn about our art, the more "signature effects" I have to scratch off my list as I disappointingly found it, or very similar, already belonged to another.

As for their worth, whether signature effects or not, any performer using such secrets to carve out a good living will find such secrets priceless.

Danny I’ve read hundreds of posts justifying certain practices in Magic with “Well we all have to pay the bills”. My perspective on this has always been a little confused and muddled with such justification, as I never got into magic for the money. I also don’t feed myself or pay the bills with magic.

I do it for my own entertainment and hopefully anyone watching.

So with this in mind, you can imagine how unsporting and disappointed I am with those exposing magic or selling it cheap for a quick buck. Also on my list of dislikes is those that steal and use without proper credit or worse, sell it as their own.

Many Greats in Magic history spent their entire lives practicing their craft, inventing, manufacturing, selling, and writing secrets.

They were apparently worth it to them.

I would prefer it if all magicians from mow on took their secrets to the grave. Then each generation could have some fun trying trying to find them.

The muses will come to those THEY choose. And those who are respect the art will teach whom then can.

I argue that (from the perspective of the art alone) there is no need for OTC magic.

Glad the language problem wasn't so bad for everyone. This is exactly what I am getting at. Thanks guys.

One moment and Bill Palmer will be with you...

And those who are respect the art will teach whom then can?

For a guy so hung up on language you need to point it out every time someone else states something wrong, it seems that sentence is a bit out of the ordinary don't you?

Though you may be quoting someone, if that is true you didn't actually provide a citation.

Bad grammar aside I can agree also that over the counter magic is not necessary for the continuation of our "art". I have felt this way for a long time. It could be argued, if you ask me, that it may actually be better for our art in the end.

Jonathan,

Being is without context or place – it is a symptom of our time, even how time has come to be defined.

Resisting, but especially trying to reverse this ubiquitous state seem futile.

We need better ways forward, not reminiscing a forgotten past.

Some thoughts,

M x

whom they can. Thanks for pointing out my typo.

And Matt, to move forward we may need to sever some ties to habits. That of expecting to find new magic in the shops or advertised online may be a useful habit to break.

I must insert here that organized juggling from 1946 to 1985 was afraid that the art would die from neglect, so they initiated a policy to "share the art" and give everything away for free to who ever has the desire to learn. In 1946 there were 12 jugglers that started the IJA, and now there are over 3,000 jugglers in the US alone. This policy did not cheapen the art, it just made it availible to everyone.
IT WORKED
Al Angello

Al I have a serious question.

Does juggling have "secrets" as magic does? To me what is amazing about a juggler is the practice, skill and the presentation.

While this can also be argued of magic, also the "secret" holds some sway as well. Do you advocate "giving away magic secrets"?

I am not trying to argue, only thinking there may be a subtle difference is all.

"Magicians guard an empty safe"-Jim Steinmeyer

Were we not taught at some point by someone that the secrets are finite...only so many like the number of notes on a piano. It's how we arrange the notes to play the music that makes it art?

I think Richard Kaufman is writing up the effects for the MindFreak book and I'm certain they will be fairly simple easy going effects for the general public.

Criss exposing a few notes of a simple song might just inspire some kid to write a symphony?

Maybe.

I guess that means the mechanics behind all of his works are now open for treatment as public domain. Very nice of him. Do you want your secrets and hard work made available to all who ask or even look on the internet?

Some of us want that safe respected and its contents of method, knowlege and artistic decisions kept out of public awareness.

"The hardest thing is to convince people that the value of a secret is in keeping it secret ... The secret of a card trick (mathematical or not) is like the punchline of a joke. Both are secrets and both are valuable in front of the current audience until you tell them. Nobody wants to hear the same punchline twice.'' (Steve Beam)

Inspire the next generation to seek out those who will pass on their knowledge.
Their knowledge with the appropriate ciatation

Posted: Sep 10, 2006 9:24pm
Yes it is misspelled

What people tommy? This is about a problem WITH magicians, not people in general.

Well I don't see the difference. Why should you tell a magician a secret?