How does being female affects my magic, if at all? Do female magicians in general gravitate toward theatrical magic? These were two questions that were posed to me recently at a magic meeting. I do think being female affects my performance, but to me that's like saying being me affects my performance. After all the two are impossible to separate.

Do female magicians in general gravitate toward theatrical magic? I'm not sure. Personally I gravitate toward theatrical magic that tells stories. I love Tina Lenert's mop act and Cardini's tipsy old man act, and Galina's zombie act. Luna Shimadas acts are some of my favorites, because they are very theatrical and have a great story like the mother and child zombie routine she does.

So is this just a stereotype or is there truth behind it? What think thee ladies?
Peace Beth

Hey Beth!!

Great Questions!



I think your following comment says a lot.



I think it's really hard to tell if being female affects my performance because I've never done magic as a male. I bring to my performance things I've learned in my life as a female person. A girl, a woman, a wife, a mom. All of those things go into me as a performer. So does being female affect my performance? You said it best.



I don't know for sure, there is some evidence pointing to that. The question I would want to ask then would be; Why? I could see how we would be less interested in "look what I can do" sort of magic. If you consider magic with meaning, or story magic the same as theatrical magic, to me it seems more interesting than magic just for magic's sake or magic that says "Look at me, aren't I cool!"

Suzanne

Hello

It does have an influence I think, because people are simply used to see men in that position!

So not only you have to overcome the initial surprise of doing something "magical" (or mental),but also the fact that you are a woman... perhaps that's too much for the spectators to be actually believable?

Bye

Rebecca

I suppose that being a female affects my magic, but I wouldn't say that it does so any more than being male affects a male magician's work. Different themes can be explored and I may look at something differently, but that is because I refuse to be a parrot and just repeat what is thrown at me.

Which leads me to your next question: theatrical magic. For me, I absolutely gravitate towards this type of magic; however, I have spent a good deal of my life involved with theatre and dance. I cannot separate this from my life and would never want to seperate this from my magic. That being said, however, I do not feel this has anything to with being female as much as being artistic. I am repeatedly inspired by Arturo Brachetti and I am drawn to his work for its quality. He is also drawn to theatre...as are many male magicians.

Is there a predisposition to this because I'm female. It's possible, but I'm not a psychologist, so I interpret it only as something I'm passionate about. I love to be invested in a story. I think that's just being human...

I think that being female does affect our magic. I know there are many good female magicians, but some people can't get past the fact that we are female to see the talent that we have. I am not saying that all people are like that because they aren't, but there are some. I just say practice hard and impress those willing to let you impress them.
shayna

Theatrical - sure - like others - theatre background plays here - and, the idea of a story laid out in a linear telling in time.

Most of my stuff is character (as I've said elsewhere here), but, even in that, there is a build flow in the presentation.

Does being a woman effect and affect my magic? Sure. People used to think (in my previous time working a few faires and such)- oh, a children's show. I kinda feel that may have been sterotypical. I've had people tell me that my stuff was weaker than a guy doing the same thing. Funny thing was, I know I ran the routines better than the guy...so, I'm pretty sure that was a stereotype incident, too.

I used to work at a magic shop. That was where things hit the worse. I'd be demoing a routine (let's say, Hopping Half, for example). I was the only one behind the counter, had about three guys really watching and into it. A male salesperson walked in, I got left in the dust, and, they had the kid demo the same thing I just did...and there was the usual guffaws and laughter...no matter how better I was (at that time), the men (as a general rule) gravitated to the guy selling/doing the magic. Another shop I tried to get hired on at was run by the daughter of the guy who owned the business. She pointedly refused to hire any person but men for the magic side - her entire reason was that the sales were what mattered, and, magicians, as a rule, didn't buy from women. And, a third moment in this - I was shopping at a shop in Las Vegas (off the strip). There was a trio of the "guy's club" there - and I was shopping for some serious pieces to add into my collection of routines. The "good ol' boys" gave me cat calls and everything else...kept pointing out the "Adams" shelf and otherwise. Luckily the owner of the shop was a gentleman and got that trio off my back.

Now, back to the stage thing. I am primarily a standup worker - platform/stage - and, am prop heavy in my act. Never really got into the closeup arena. I figured there were enough people out there doing that, enough male card workers and coin manipulators and others of that ilk. So, I found my niche and went for it. A lot of people (guys) asked me if learning the closeup manipulations were too hard for me. I was honest. Wasn't that they were too hard, I was being too lazy.

Nowadays, I'm thinking on the coins more and more to do something with manipulation. Still don't have a taste for cards, though. Enough guys out there to do that.

So -does being who I am affect my magic? Sure. It made me find untraditional roles to portray and build an act that fits them and me. Does it make it harder for me? Yes. Getting festival owners and bookers to look at a woman wanting to work their event in magic is often a challenge. They tend to still book guys over gals. Thusly, I have to build and create something so blinking fantastic that it pretty much blows competition away. Not easy, takes time, and, is a challenge.

Luckily, as you ladies know, for us, well, that's easy.

Kd
:cool:

Very true. It is the same mostly everything. I play a "boy's" sport (baseball), in addition to magic, pretty well and I tried out for my school team. The only way I'll make the team again this year is if I'm better then all the guys because you can't be as good as, you have to better than, the men. Sadly the Roman way still exists in society (in Latin when speaking of a group, there can be 99 females and 1 male in the group and the word becomes masculine). I learn a lot from my father (also a magician) and as his assistant I help him build his show. As well as make up my own routines. Majority of the routines that I developed have been intertwined into the show so that it will match the theme that we are putting together.
Ashley

Being a female magician gives us an advantage because we can do whatever we want. Like if we wanted to wear a dress and be graceful and beautiful we can. Men can not do that becuase the audience would assume things that could or could not be true. It also depends on what type of audience you are perfoming for, like if it is an older audience they would enjoy a more elegant show, which women can usually be more elegant then men, but not always.

Good points by all.

And I know exactly what Kym is talking about.
I used to work at a magic shop, and I was actually the head magician, but when a guy would come over, they would all gravitate towards him.
It would make me so mad.
Since I was the head magician...
I made a rule. No one comes over unless I am not there or I ask for help.
As the place was a costume shop too, plus lighting and other stuff.

I will say this...
I don't think that getting work has been a problem.
I actually think most people would love to see a female magician.

As far as stage work...
I do think females go more towards this type of magic.
Unfortunetly, more towards the illusions.
Personally I hate illusions.
Mainly the ones that everybody has seen a billion times.
Now a good Copperfield illusion is different.
But a zig-zag lady or something like that... horrible!
I wish females, and really everyone, wouldn't do this type of magic.
It makes you look like you have no talent, at least to other magicians.
The box and your assistants do all the work, and you take credit for it.
I think this is what the problem is with male magicians towards female.

Personally, I like parlor magic.
It can be done on stage or fairly close up.
And it's not lame illusions.

But, this is just how I feel.

Randi

Randi,

I am realeasing a book this year that may change the way you feel about those illusions. It's called "Theatrical Magic - The Book" and it is full of original scripts and stories for many of those illusions. I think you'll like it, because it motivates everything!

Stories and scripts....
Sorry, I hate it already.

I think the last thing magic needs is stories.
I never understood why people have to put a long boring story with their magic.
Time you actually get to the magic, the audience is asleep.

A friend of mine wanted to show me his ninja ring routine, because that's one of the tricks that I excel at.
The first ten minutes was nothing but a story about the differance between chinese and japanese rings.
Who cares? I am a magician and I don't care.
Just show me the magic.

But this is just me... to each their own... right?

Any way...
I think this topic is more for the ladies and there magic.
Not why I hate illusions... I will say no more.

Randi

Hi there!

I am not a lady - though I wanna say some stuff.

I think a lot of people believe that women magicians have it hard for them.

In some ways it does - though in other ways its awesome.

Think about this all my magic lady friends out there: How many female magicians are their? Not many? How many male are their? Too many!

Yes it can be hard for ladies who generally want to show people magic because 99% of people (men) will be more happy for a lady to show them some magic, but will not take it serious.

However maybe ya skills might take longer to learn - though there are so many unique ways of magic women can go. Why doesn't a women do some street magic like blaine? Stage magic is sorta been done - though why not create something new and fresh.

I believe a lot of women think that being a female magician can pull you down. Yes, in some ways through respect and picking up the required sleights, though there are PLENTY OF great things about being a female magician that a lot of men do not have.

I really do not like the idea of being a female affects your performance. Why does it? What can you do about it? Sex change? And if it is affecting you, why is it? Someone with a disability problem could say their problem affects their performance.

The only way it AFFECTS YOUR PERFORMANCE IS IF YOU LET IT TOO!

Women look up rather than down - you have a lot more advantages that you think in this awesome business!

JaY JaY

Hi there,

Just wanted to say that this is a really interesting post! I never realised being a female magician had quite so many problems and issues to deal with.

I happen to quite respect the role of the magicians assisstant in tricks as well. Although to the audience they may not seem to be running the show, behind the scenes the assisstant often has to be much more talented than the magician!

Good luck to you all!

Many thanks

Magical Mark Watson
(mark1991)

Jayaweera

I don't do "street magic', but I do tricks that are in that same area.

I don't do illusions, and I don't do your standard magic. (ie. die box, square circle, etc)
I do some crazy stuff...
such as razor blades, spoon bending, fire eating, etc..

This is magic that could be done on the street.
But I don't really know how to make money doing street magic.
So therefor, I only do parlor, stage, and walk around.
That I can make money doing.

Also...
"However maybe ya skills might take longer to learn"
I know you are not meaning anything bad by that... but you're getting close to saying the wrong thing. Just letting you know.

But just to answer your question.
There are women magicians that are doing their own thing.
You just haven't heard of them.
But you will.
Remember, the "do your own thing" type of magic is fairly new.
If you was to ask a layman, who are some extra-oridinary magicians...
Your only going to get Chris Anglel and David Blaine.
That's only two.
In the future I believe you will see more female magicians, and you will see more female magicians that are not doing illusions.
At least I hope so.
If not, at least one!! Me!

Randi

"It makes you look like you have no talent"
"...it's not lame illusions."
"Stories and scripts....Sorry, I hate it already."

Wow, Randi, you really have it out for illusionist. You are entitled to like and dislike whatever you want. However, the manner you use to voice this opinion is a bit distressing and rather disrespectful.
Because you do not like illusions does not mean those that perform them have no talent. Because you do not like an illusion does not make it lame. Because you do not like the content of a book (a book you have not even read) is not fair cause to state you "hate it already".

I don't really care for close-up, it's not what I do. That does not mean however, that I have a blind, across the board, disdain for it. I choose not to do close-up but I respect the skills and talents of those that do. And I freely admit that because I have little interest in it I'm lacking in full understanding of many of it's concepts and details. That in mind I tend to keep my opinions on close-up to myself. Least I should say something and come off as rude or just plain stupid.

You claim, in many posts, in one way or another, that it's just you and you won't say any more about it. Yet you do.
You were a bit cavalier when you told JayJay "I know you are not meaning anything bad by that... but you're getting close to saying the wrong thing. Just letting you know."
Good adivice

Morgan

Morgan

It's not that I have it out for illusionists.
It's just that I am sick of illusions.
I am just tired of seeing the same thing over and over.
And even in your quotes of me, shows I didn't say that illusionists have no talent.
I said...
"I wish females, and really everyone, wouldn't do this type of magic.
It makes you look like you have no talent, at least to other magicians."

And this is very much true.
The illusion and the assistants do all the work, and the illusionist takes credit for it.

But yes, I can come off rude some times.
Mostly not on purpose though, but I do speak my mind.
I said what I said about the book on stories for a reason.
I think Big Daddy Cool didn't get what I was saying.
I am not sick of illusions because they have no stories.
Putting a long boring story is just going to make it worse.
And for bringing it up again after I said "I would say no more"...
I am just following up on your post.

Sorry for being outspoken.
But I have studied magic for over 20 years.

Randi

I agree with Randi on the whole illusions thing. They do get boring after a while. No matter what you do it is going to have about the same effect every time. I am an on stage assistant in my dad's illusion show and well he does pretty much nothing but stand there and talk while in the shadows doing the rest of the operation. Hay what I know I'm still an amateur when it comes to the subject. Illusionist have to be smart enough to think of the ideas that put the whole thing together just like close up workers who have to be just as intelligent to be able to figure out to present something with out slipping up.
Ashley

Hello Randi,

I don't think the problem is that you speak your mind and are outspoken. I suspect the way you phrase things comes across as more dismissive of other people than you intend.

It's a danger for those of us who perform acts generally regarded as more cutting edge that we can become dismissive and elitist towards the more traditional.

I've been eating fire professionally for over 30 years. When I started in the 70's I thought I was just the trendiest thing known to man performing such a way out bizarre act. Actually there's nothing cutting edge or 'crazy' about it. It's one of the oldest stunts known to entertainment. Likewise magicians have been playing off the dangers of sharp objects for a long long time and men in suits were bending cutlery on television when I was a kid.

I'd personally never use a square circle or die box, but millions of people have been, and are, entertained by magicians utilizing these apparatus.

Like you I tend to talk in generalisms - I think we get that from years of trying to get ideas across on stage as simply and directly as possible. I was once (very gently) taken to task by Café member and talented performer, Gwyd for my dismissive attitude towards fire twirlers. And he was so right. We need to be respectful of, and polite to other performers regardless of whether they perform a different style to us and, like Ms Morgan, even if it doesn't interest us. (I wish I could see your show Ms Morgan - It looks hot)

As for stories your own marketed effect (which, by the way, looks very good) relies on a story. It may not be a 'once upon a time' nonsense, but without the story of the seven deadly sins, it's just divining a card.

Big Daddy Cool has been performing professionally, and very successfully, for the same 20 years you have been studying magic. His coming book is about 'theatrical' magic. I looked at your promo video. I liked it. It had the 'theatrical' touch I really like.

"I suspect the way you phrase things comes across as more dismissive of other people than you intend."

Probably, but also there are things I feel strongly about.
Here is one.
I live in Texas, and maybe if I lived in Las Vegas it would be different. But...
When people ask me what I do for a living and I say Magician.
They look at me like I am a big dork.
Why? It's because of the image of a magician that quickly pops into there head.
And what are these images?
I think we all know.
I am not a big Chris Angel fan, but I will say this...
He has put the image of a magician up there with a rock star.
And I love that!!!
I never said the kind of magic I do is new or original, but it's not (lack of a better word) dorky.

I do kids shows, but they are not your typical kids shows.
This is because I don't want the kids growing up with that image.
"I'd personally never use a square circle or die box, but millions of people have been, and are, entertained by magicians utilizing these apparatus."
Me neither!!

Also, just to add something that is based on this forum subject...
If I don't say I am a magician, and just say I am an entertainer...
People think, "oh what a nice way to say stripper."
A problem that female magicians have.

So yes, I want to change the view of a magician.
And if I step on some peoples toes because of it...
So be it. I am sorry.
I am not a mean person. I just want what I want.

Randi

Hi Randi,

I think I see where you're coming from - you're in a hurry to get somewhere and if you have to run a few red lights and scare the crap out of a few pedestrians, so be it.

I promise you though - you'll catch more flies with honey, a lesson I took far too long to learn.

I suspect Ms Morgan and Big Daddy Cool would agree with you about the dorky magician stereotype - neither of them are anything like it. But leave the dorks
to their own five finger manipulation (I could have said that in 4 letters). They will always be with us.

I live in a provincial tourist town of 100,000 people at the far north of
Australia so I know exactly what you mean about peoples perception of magicians.

Fortunately though, I spent a decade performing crocodile shows by day(no magic beyond surviving) and cabaret by nite so I don't suffer by association.

I always describe myself as an entertainer, not because I'm ashamed of magic but because it better describes what I do - I entertain using magic and other elements
(fire, dance, drama, comedy, mime - no overt story telling) - all essential to my act but secondary to the magic. Locally 'entertainer' means "ooh - what a nice way to say singer/guitarist playing covers". 'Dancer' is the nice euphemism for stripper here.

I'm positive you're not a mean person - just young and bristling with enthusiasm -
some of us are older and still bristling with enthusiasm - and we've all had to step on a few toes - it's just wise to choose which toes are worth stepping on.