"I'm positive you're not a mean person - just young and bristling with enthusiasm -
some of us are older and still bristling with enthusiasm - and we've all had to step on a few toes - it's just wise to choose which toes are worth stepping on."

Well... not really...

I am 35 years old, not very young in my opinion.
I don't know if I would say I am bristling with enthusiasm either.
More like...
I know what I want, I am tired of being cautious, and I'm going for it.
Kind of a...
Lead, Follow, or get out the way type of thing.

And Dancer is a euphemism for stripper here too.
But a female saying they are an entertainer will also get you that odd look.

I do that trick Guinea Pig Box, where you eat it. Mainly just for comedy.
My guinea pig died recently and I had to get another one, and had to get a mostly white one.
When I finally found one, I told them I needed it for my act.
stripper+guinea pig...
I can't even begin to imagine what they were thinking.

Randi

All magic has a story to it - or at least a glimmer of psychological meaning perhaps. Fire eating is more than fire eating - it represents a human being being able to master one of the most dangerous elemental forces of the ancient (and modern) world. One doesn't need a verbal patter script - but there is some sort of underlying script of sorts for all theatrical presentations... in my humble opinion.

In my day job, one of the things I tackle is stigma in terms of mental illness, addiction, culture, religion etc... and women do have the cards stacked against them in many ways. I am glad to see over time things changing - but this is a very interesting thread - so I hope you don't mind me dropping in.

When you think of the word "an addict" it often brings immediately an image to mind. So does "magician" - except luckily my image is more Mandrake / Dr Strange and the like. Women don't spring to mind often... (hopefully one day like the word "actor", this will change). If I said female magician to the average joe, not too many would answer - maybe the comic book enthusiasts will name Zatanna.

As for female magician "titles" - I sometimes see females call themselves Magicienne. Well, it sounds nice and mysterious - but beats me if that helps the situation or not.

A quick look at the thesaurus turned up other choices - as the key is to have a title that stuns the listener enough to get them intrigued and curious without a stigmatic image popping up (I edited out "charmer" "siren" etc for the same reason Randi points out would cause deadbeats to think deadbeat things):

archimage, conjurer, conjuror, diabolist, divine, exorcist, fortune-teller, genie, illusionist, medicine (wo)man, medium, miracle worker, necromancer, prophet, satanist, seer, shaman, soothsayer, sorcerer, spellbinder, thaumaturge, theurgist, voodoo, witch doctor, wizard

Personally, if I was a fire eating bizarrist - I'd think of being and Elemental or a "seer" (OUCH (get the joke... when you do (OUCH))....

Ok - I'll wander away again.

P.S. Sorry to hear about the guinea pig. My dog passed away recently. I am sure they are all in Animal Arcadia or some such place.

I like diabolist!!
I may just start using that.

If you have ever seen the old movie 'The Mad Magician' with Vincent Price...
There is this magician on there that when he introduces himself with his name, he adds on "master of the black arts".
I some times say that. I think that's pretty cool.
It's on my mySpace.

Randi

Hello all!

Pardon my intrusion, but I am glad I found this thread. Randi you look VERY young for 35...I just saw your demo video...in a word...IMPRESSIVE!! I can understand the mistake in thinking you are "young and bristling with enthusiasm".

It's a shame that when a female say she is an entertainer, men's minds go "there". One would think that, in this day, we would have been FAR past that. When someone says, "female magician", I wish there would be more than Melinda that crosses one's mind.

I'm a radio DJ, and females in this business also get stereotyped, which GALLS me...I've been in radio for 36 years, and the young lady down the hall in the Contemporary Music station, is one of the best in Radio. She gets unfair treatment all the time, and I've been rather vocal about that lately.

I wish there would be a female version of Criss Angel (no offense to CA haters) on national TV. Ms. Morgan would be a choice pick, based on what I've seen in demos, as would Randi Rain. Both are heart-stoppingly beautiful, and would be a welcome viewing choice for todays Network/Cable magic programs.

As one who has been in magic as long as I've been in radio, I would sure WELCOME more female magicians (ANY type, Illusion, Close-Up, Cutting Edge, Etc). What needs to be done, is raising AWARENESS. Females are STILL getting slighted, and that's not fair...never has been.

Just my $.02

Doug

Just an oddball observation...

For those of you who receive the The Linking Ring... why is the column Women in Magic written by a man?

Just wondering!

Diabolist does sound cool. Plus it fits with (hell)fire.

Ciao.

"It's a shame that when a female say she is an entertainer, men's minds go "there"."
It's not just men, it's anyone.
It happened just the other day with this girl.
I would probably think the same thing.

The problem is not that...
The problem is what people think of when you say magician.
Like everyone says... you want to make more money, stop calling yourself a magician.
This is why I do a totally different type of kid show.
I don't want to be the one to put that image in their head.
I want them to grow up thinking of a magician as something amazing and cool.

Randi Rain
Diabolist, master of the black arts.

Being a female in any male dominated industry
changes how you project yourself and what you do.

You've already broken out of the mode of what
everyone associates men being in.

Now its making you different from everyone else.

Being female afects your magic (or music) performances
by the fact we have get around our breasts.
seriously, everything has to work around them.
Costumes to arm movements.

Plus we need to break from the 'stereo typcial' mold.

Nice remarks Marshall Thornside.

I agree with you 100%.

Except the whole breast thing.
Unfortunately that problem has been very LITTLE for me.
But if I can ever come up with the money...
I will have that BIG problem too.
:)

Randi

Randi,

I'll buy 'Deadly' and contribute towards your 'BIG problem' but I fear what people
will think once you become a female entertainer with large surgically enhanced adornments.

I know a stripper who complains that when she says she's an entertainer people think it's a polite way of saying 'Magician'.

(Sorry - made that up)

I apologise for making assumptions about your age - I thought you looked much younger in the promo vid - but how old you are is irrelevant - you're a great looking woman and a wonderful entertainer, sorry... Diabolist, master of the black arts. Whatever you do, do not become a 'mistress of the black arts' - we'll never explain that.


Destiny

All right Destiny...
I must admit you made me laugh.
You're alright in my book.

Two things though...
One, I would never get BIG enhancements. Just bigger.
Two, no need to appoligise for thinking I was younger than I am.
I don't not smoke, eat healthy, and stay out of the sun for nothing.

Randi

Randi, I'm going to try and NOT sound "trite" when I say this...

I think you are absolutely BEAUTIFUL just the way you ARE! I don't want to tell what you should or should not do...but "enhancements", in my opinion, just UNDERMINE what you are trying to accomplish as an entertainer!

You stated that you, "...do a totally different type of kid show...I don't want to be the one to put that image in their head....I want them to grow up thinking of a magician as something amazing and cool."
Also...

"If I don't say I am a magician, and just say I am an entertainer...
People think, 'oh what a nice way to say stripper.' A problem that female magicians have."

"Enhancing" yourself may aggravate that "problem"

No Randi...you are PERFECT, just the way you are...I know two women who had that procedure done many years ago. They BOTH regret it ("Men aren't WORTH it", says one).

Just my $.02

:)

Doug

Thanks very much Doug, that was very sweet.

But... two things...
If I did it, and I do mean IF...
You would not be able to tell that I did.
Even if you knew me, you would never know.
The upgrade would be very slight... if you know what I mean.
Two... it's for me... not for men.

Randi

Y'know what is interesting - the way this thread has progressed... which may indicate one of the interesting issues the thread was about in the first place! I wonder if this thread was on another forum... if the talking about these enhancements would then be discussed as a possible hold-out, a misdirection device, a new topit like area to be used etc. OK throw stones at me if you will - but this certainly is an intersting direction for this thread!

Dr Spektor,

we're ahead of you on this one - we discussed this in one of the first threads on this forum and some of us have been using 'temporary enhancements' since way before Wonderbra was thought of, as holdouts and topits.

I am surprised when female magicians complain of the limitations their clothing puts on their magic. Womens clothing need never conform to the rather rigid confines that menswear is constrained by - and that opens up worlds of opportunity.

We need to train our minds to look for the opportunities in life - the obstacles will present themselves without any prompting.