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I don't have that issue of MAGIC. I don't subscribe to the magazine.

However, I'll say this. My opinions are based upon many years of actual performance and study of audience reactions. If the people in the debate were performers, I would consider their opinion with much more weight than I would someone who is a non-performing magician.

Richard Kaufman is a friend of mine, and a great artist and editor, but he doesn't perform much. I would take the opinion of someone like Michael Ammar or Daniel Garcia over Richard just about any day of the week.

But things have also changed a lot since 1993. Story magic was a fledgling art in the US back then. The Punx trilogy had just been finally published. Borodin was unknown over here. Blaine was unheard of. Criss Angel was playing in a garage band.

Bizarre magic was just coming to the forefront, and some of the work in that field was really off the mark.

Audiences are smarter than we normally give them credit for. When they see magicians doing the same material with the same lines, they begin to think of us as magic parrots.

This is especially true when you look at the regionalization of magic. I have found that in certain parts of the country, certain routines are very popular. The same is true in foreign countries. Why is this? I think it is because there is one fairly creative guy in each region. The others copy him.

Which do you want to be? Do you want to be the creative guy? Or do you want to be a parrot?

I don't do patter with any of my routines. I do a script. You don't think about patter. It is meaningless babble. A script has a purpose.

To tell the truth, I think you are trying to get out of doing some of the most important work in magic -- creating something that is yours.

Here's an idea, one that I employ:

As you perform, take notice that audience members' jokes and witticisms are really only original to them. After a few years, you'll realize that people tend to arrive at the same places mentally.

Write these reactions down. Then take the time to formulate a series of "seemingly" impromptu responses. These will become your bread and butter lines. You will never be outed for your preparation, because audience members don't have the sum total of your experience.

I have written great comebacks on my feet, but I also have thought through some of the more polemical situations as well, looking a for a valve.

Hope this helps,

-R

As Bill is well aware, the very first recorded Cups and Balls routine we have in print is in Hocus Pocus Jr., which Bill has created an excellent "translation" of. It's also available in its original form at the Learned Pig.

In Hocus Pocus, the balls are given names, though they don't really have much of an adventure.

For my own routine, I've given the balls names, too. And I explain why. I use the names frequently through the routine. While it's not much of a "story," I think that "Antonio goes to visit his mother-in-law in another neighborhood," might be ever so slightly more captivating than "I'll take this ball and put it in my pouch."

Once the balls have names, where they're going, why they're going and what they do when they get there might have some funny possibilities. (I won't tell you why one of the balls has to recite twelve Hail Marys before returning to his cup. . .)

One additional thought is that the lines you come up with for your Cups and Balls routine should be consistent with the lines in the rest of your act. This is why the development of your performing character is important. If you watch clips of Whit Haydn performing his Pop Knot, the silk to egg, the newspaper tear and the four linking rinks, you'll see that each bit not only holds up on its own, but they also hold together, even when, according to Whit himself, he performs the Gene Andersen Newspaper Tear almost exactly the same way Andersen created it.

I wish we could see some Bill Palmer clips up on the net someplace, because I'm sure his lines are consistent with his characters, not just with Cups and Balls, but through the whole act.

Why does the poster assume that there are "great" "classic" cups and balls specific lines that are commonly known and everyone has access to? Where did you get this assumption from? Write your own stuff if you want to be any good. It's weird how many people thing there's a shortcut and think things should just be handed to them when they ask, a sense of entitlement. Sharing sleights and secrets is one thing, but sharing lines gets to the heart of a person's act.

Jim

If I may add my 2c worth in here...look at the greats of magic...Malini; Leipzig; Vernon; Robert-Houdin; Hofzinser; Tamariz; Ricky Jay...too many others to name...
Everyone of them do their own presentations (or at least their own versions of an old presentation) that fit their style.

My thought is this, and others may disagree but I'll throw it out there...If you wish to just "regurgitate" what someone else does, that's fine...if you don't intend to perform for lay-audiences and get paid for it!

If you are looking for the classic lines and you want to see them delivered by the masters I would suggest renting anything you can find with W.C. Fields, Jimmy Durante, Tommy Cooper, Eddie Cantor, The Marx Brothers, and I'll stop there or the list will go on forever. For classic bits and sight gags the silent films are the way to go, Keaton, Chaplin, Lloyd, Arbuckle, Langdon, and anybody else there abouts. Jacques Tati is also worth a look if you can find his stuff.

It is all there if you look for it. This is also a list that almost anybody who works in comedy would suggest. They are the classics and the place to begin when you want to learn.

But really the only way to learn comedy is to go out there and do it badly until you get good at it. The only way to do that is to have a lot of confidence in yourself and a set of titanium man bits.

Best,

Dan-

That's the first time I have ever seen the term "titanium man bits" -- how fitting that it should be in a post about this subject!

Last year, I was in Amsterdam. Auke van Dokkum and his wife took my wife and me to see a Dutch magician. One of the routines he did was the Invisible Deck. His routine was almost verbatim the Harry Blackstone script. That really amazed me.

Well, back to practicing the cups and man bits.

LOL!

There it is...a new line. It made me laugh!

Thanks Bill!

Best,

Dan-

There is funny that works around to world, it’s not easy but it is possible. A good example of it is Shoot Ogawa much of his stuff needs little or no translation. I think Whit Haydn routines would translate quite well and be funny in just about any where.



We have a liberal, tree hugging, environmentalist where I live, that turns every one of his routines into propaganda. I’m all for him having a firm and steadfast belief, but I want to see magic, not be brainwashed.


IMHO magicians should avoid political, religious & regional humor, there are so many things that are universally funny one can do.

I understand avoiding political and religious humor but I'm curious about regional humor. Isn't it wise to, "When in Rome do as the Romans do."?

If Rome is the only place you will ever play, I guess that would be OK, but your going to bomb if you play Venice. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a solid routine , why not make one that will work any where you may go?

:bwink:

Sometimes you regionalize your humor by finding out who people tell jokes about in your area. It's best not to pick on ethnic groups, but colleges are fair game. In Texas, we have been blessed with Aggies. They are so wonderful to make the butt of jokes. As Merlin, I did Ancient Saxon jokes. I never had an Ancient Saxon come up to me after the show and complain.

One time, a lady came up to me after the show and said, "You are really funny, but you do too much ethnic material."

"What ethnic material. I have carefully scrubbed all of that from my act."

"Well, you know, those Aggie jokes."

I said, "Madam. Ethnic is free. You have to PAY to be an Aggie." She cracked up, and her skin thickened visibly.

Thanks for clarifying Tom, I get your point. I was thinking that in that solid routine there are places for the lines we are speaking of. One could substitute one line for another, a regional difference, without busting up the routine. Like a rock bands front man says, "Springfield rocks harder than any other city!!!!!!!"

Bill,

We have those Aggie jokes here too, "OSU" but thanks to the millions alumnigh T. Boone Pickens of Texas has given them, they can buy better foot ball players now.

I think most of the jokes like that, are universal and all that one needs to do is exchange Aggie with Blond or Neanderthal or Democrats or Republicans or even Baptist and the joke plays the same. It’s just depends what you can get away with.

Tom

There is supposed to be a comma after millions.

It is much easier to get away with deprecating humor if you are one of the people you make fun of. Jeff Foxworthy could not do his act if he sounded like Ted Kennedy. Larry the Cable Guy could not do his act if he didn't look and sound like a redneck. If he wore an ascot, a blazer and white trousers and spoke with a posh accent, he would offend the very audience he makes MILLIONS from.

This is all part of "character." Once the Latino community learned that Bill Dana was not really Cuban or Mexican, his act was finished.