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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts 
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What if I was? Is that not the truth? Are you not in business to make money? Has the knowledge on these dvds not been published elsewhere? Did you do this project for your health? Do you pitch it every chance you get so you can "help" other magicians? don't worry, you are not the only one to do this. Its business.
I feel that I have every right to tell seasoned magicians that they already own this knowledge. Either on their shelves or in their head... |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts
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The material might be found elsewhere, but the set most likely brings it all together for easy reference, especially for the beginner. Although the important message here is not learning "tricks" so to speak, I still feel it puts a damper on a DVD when material is shown and then not taught. I personally do not buy DVDs such as this to just learn the effects, but it is an added plus. Sure it might make the DVDs production cost go up, and there might be more DVDs etc; but I bought Daryl's EOCS and Vernon's Revelations. I don't mind paying a little more to get more. Again just my opinion as a consumer.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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munkywrench Loyal user Conway, SC 298 Posts
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I am pretty green and had never heard of these guys. Whith that said the knowledge I gained from watching these tapes was worth the time spent. This is the type of path I plan on taking and the ideas that were presented were IMHO top notch. Who cares if stuff is rehashed. I'm pretty sure half the folks her watch repeats of Friends, Raymond, Sanford and Son, Andy Griffith so come off it. Everybody has there own idea on stuff and this is what brings change and inventiveness to magic. You say potato I say po-tot-to know what I mean? As for not having an effect taught...everything on the Jail House tapes is pretty much old hat with each persons own spin on it. These guys did an awsome job on making the effects their own. If you want to learn these effects the research required to learn them will help you in the long run. I was happy that not all of the stuff was tipped that helps me in my creating stuff and the history behind an effect that will fry the layperson. We should support these guys for putting out a solid set and lay off bagging them for what they should or shouldn't have done. Who knows you could make Jail House 2 your self and expound on the flaws that you see in this offering. We should embrace helping each other. If you don't want to shell out the green then don't...and don't crap on someone for trying to help others out. Peace and great job Koz, Justin, Paul, Garett, Dan F, Dan T, and Kirk you guys helpe me out and I know you helped others out. Kevin
Family Biz. https://www.facebook.com/dreamweaverconway/
Disciple of the Close-Up Kinda Guy PH. Balloon Blast Video Show junkie. Supporter of http://www.myrtlebeachmagician.com/ Retired Demo Dude IBM #334 supporter |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts
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Thanks
garret thomas is currently working on the new blaine special kirk charles has written 7 books on table hopping and is currently a full time pro from seatle paul green has been doing magic for 30 years and is living and currently living in LA and one of the favorites at the magic castle dan fleshman has been a full time restaurant guy for 25 years and has lectured all over the world justin miller has the largest selling dvd in the world right now, silver dream dan tong has been doing magic for a living for 50 years...full time then theres me...just 20 years full time if you are interested in making a living as a magic performer these will help you...if you are new and inexperienced this is a great place to start in gaining knowledge...also recommened is any of the kirk charles books, jim paces work and certainly the magic menu, jim sisti...get all the info you can and if you have talent you will succeed thanks for your support koz will this set help paul green NO they have lived it but you certainly will change your learning curve by watching thios product |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-01-19 10:17, munkywrench wrote: I disagree with that statement. All opinions from consumers are to be valued, regardless of the difference in opinions. You can't put out a product and just expect everyone to be happy with it. About all you can do is listen to all the constructive criticism, and find ways to make the product even better. Not simply get upset over it, or disregard the opinions just because they conflict with yours. When people talk about "what a product is missing," it is not that they are ignoring the positive qualities of it, but are trying to fill in the gaps to make the product even better. It is all on how you choose to view it. You can disregard negative reviews all you want, but they still exist nonetheless. It you can't handle criticism, don't put out a product. That being said, I cannot make an accurate assessment yet, because I do not own it. However I simply posed my viewpoints on what I like to see a product have to be as perfect as possible. High standards produce high results, and usually there is nothing out there that can't be improved somehow. You can't expect to hear simply praise, and hope all the others just keep quiet. That is not realistic, nor productive in anyway. Granted you can't please everybody, but you can sure try.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts
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We try, we cant and everything is open for criticism....
over all they have been reviewed well and we stand by what we have said ...its the first time this much info on this subject has been put on a dvd set EVER and that this information is also available at other places like the sisti projects...the kirk charles project and the jim pace project...we tried to give an accurate account of what it takes to be successful restaurant performer...and we beleive as most do that we have succeded... koz |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts
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I am actually glad that a DVD such as this has been developed, and I don't doubt the quality of it. I look forward to getting it sometime. As soon as the already huge heap on my "magic plate" is devoured.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Hart, let me take a shot at your issues concerning this product. Based on your statement that the material and information is redundant for the experienced restaurant magician with a collection of previous published works by the participants in the dvd then the purchase of said dvd would negate the restaurant worker from needing any other reference material. You are not advising the person new to this style of magic to ignore the Magic Menu or Kirk Charles' books? I doubt it. First it is very clear that the person new to restaurants or interested in starting should have the dvd because it has so much valuable information, forget the effects, the info is gold. Sure they could go spend, and this is if the books were still in print, many are not, about $500 they could then spend a lot of time sifting through the books etc to find the info they could have from the dvds in question. That doesn't mean they should ignore the books by Kirk or notes by Fleshman but they would be missing a lot if they didn't get these dvds.
Now let us look at the experienced restaurant worker with a vast library consisting of Paul Greens great notes and dvds, Fleshmans work, Kirks work, Millers work (I must admit I don't know his work), Garrett, Dan, Ted etc.. Those people wouldn't follow your advise to SAVE YOUR MONEY, they would be the first one in line in order to have a complete collection of the material! The true enthusiast would SPEND THEIR MONEY. I have all three collections of the Magic Menu, I have the Kirk Charles books, I have the Fleshman and Green notes, I have the Tong dvds etc, and I have not one regret for the purchase of the From The Jailhouse dvds because it still has value to me and to someone not as read as myself and, it seems, you, would be falling into a treasure chest rather than digging through the mud for the nuggets like I did. The only people I would advise not to get this set of dvds are those interested in something other than magic. |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts
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On 2007-01-20 19:36, MagicSanta wrote: Sorry man but I just watched them again. Nothing new here and there are much better resources out there for the money... I will say it again, if you have NOTHING on restaurant magic then this would give you a nice, basic overview. If you have a DECENT amount of material YOU WILL LEARN NOTHING NEW. If you did then you didn't closely look over what you already have. Just trying to help the guys that have been around a while. If you enjoy having a large collection of magic and want to spend a little dough then by all means purchase this set. But if you think you will learn something new that will increase your pay I can think of far BETTER WAYS TO SPEND YOUR MONEY. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Hart, I'm afraid you are standing in a hole and claiming to be defending the mountain top. No one is saying that this is a collection of 'new ideas never before printed in lecture notes, books, or other media'. Unless you got your job via the dishwasher and perform from a unicycle where patrons must approach you to see a performance then you are doing nothing new yourself. What this is is a gathering of some of the best restaurant and party magicians working who provide key details they have learned and practiced over a combined period of over 100 years. It is that simple. This dvd would be a great value for the person interested in the field, it would be of interest to those who want a complete resource library. If someone is working restaurants, doesn't feel they need any further information on improving their stand, and only will do completely original work they have created (not just variations) then don't get it. Life is simple at times isn't it?
I'll be posting my review here soon as well as a review of a dvd set by a fellow most may not have heard of...be warned Hart, some of the material on the fellows dvds were released in his book many years ago so if you have the book you may not want to read the review. |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts
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On 2007-01-24 13:55, MagicSanta wrote: Um...I already bought it Santa. If you want to go ahead and buy the hundreds of dvds and books with a "restaurant" theme that will be coming out in years to come so be it. Some will be worth it, others will be new, repackaged versions of this. I was just trying to help well-read, seasoned magicians make a wise buying decision. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what someone who owns pretty much all the restaurant stuff out there would get out of this set? Other than completing their "collection" (a great term in a saturated marketplace). I also don't really appreciate your tone. I am trying to help people make a smart buying decision. You don't need to mock me by telling me what I should and shouldn't read. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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You already bought the Paul Potassy dvd set? Fantastic!
I'm going to try this one more time for your sake, to help you develope a sense of understanding. Kirk Charles, Dan Fleshman, Justin Miller etc have views on how they approach a job and how they work a table etc. They have over the years produced notes and books etc but they continue to still go with what works for them, they do not, every couple years, completely change their views on their work. This is seen, in their works and lectures, as a 'trend'. What the Jailhouse does is bring together a group of well respected restaurant workers who answer some of the most asked questions about working in a restaurant and also to share some of their favorite effects (no one said original, no one said their hidden ones, just their favorites). Now for the most part people can find these gents making statements about approaching the GM and dealing with drunks in other publications such as in Paul Greens articles in The Magic Menu or Dan Fleshmans lecture notes or L&L dvds. What makes this project so good is it is well shot and edited and brings together all these great talents at one place and one time to provide their thoughts. I don't know of another effort such as this being done for restaurant magic. These dvds are of great value for the new restaurant worker who doesn't have 35 years experience like a Kirk Charles or Paul Green. It clearly would not be of the same value to a guy like Al the Only or Carl Andrews, not the same VALUE but it may be of INTEREST. I don't see where anyone is telling anyone with experience and thus knows how to get and keep the job to get the set but I did see you telling people, in all caps, not to buy it. I am sure that 'seasoned' magicians appreciate your guidance and benefit from your five years of being a magician in restaurants and warning them of the looming glut of dvds on restaurant work due in the next couple years. I will tell you this, if Paul Green, Dan Fleshman, Kirk Charles, or their ilk put something out I'll look into it. If some kid with only a few years puts out something odds are I will ignore it. |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-01-24 17:38, MagicSanta wrote: You don't need to be rude. I understand where you are coming from but I feel differently. You basically backed up what I have been saying the whole time. If you are new to magic and have nothing on restaurants then this would be a good start. If you have a lot of stuff then you don't NEED this. If you want to complete a collection, great. But you definitely do not need this. |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts
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What on dvd has been put out that's anything liek this...what dvd set is focused not on magic but on how to work in a restaurant?...name 2...JUST 2 that the whole purpose is to teach what goes on inside a restaurant...how to deal with staff, how to get and keep the job, just exaclty which 2 dvd's are out there....because I haven't heard of them....any that go into this topic as deep as this set...just name the 2 sets SETS that do this
the only one here being rude is you...you totally dismiss the work of 6 of the top restaurant workers in the world through your total of 3 or 4 years of experience?....i don't get it...you have said your peice...you don't like it, but 100's that have bought really like it...why are you continuing?...i don't get it...oh that's right, you beleive that your opinion is the only onr that counts...that because you didn't have a use for it it has no value?... |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts
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I would just drop it but people keep commenting about what I have said. So I guess I feel the need to comment. Just like you felt the need to comment because of what I said. What about your countless "pitches" on multiple threads. Why cant you just drop it?
You call these dvds detailed? Some things are just touched on. There is far greater details in other products(do I really have to list them all?) I don't believe that my opinion is the only one that counts but I will defend it. Are you mad because someone dared to be disappointed with your product? You are trying to make me look like a jerk when I am the paying customer and you are the seller. For the record I have in no way disrespected the performers on this dvd set. Nor am I dismissing their knowledge. I just think their are better avenues to obtain this info. I don't appreciate you and santa trying to make me look like I have no experience or that I don't have a valid opinion. I have held down multiple restaurant jobs for over 5 years and that may not be as long as some, but I have put in some serious time and I make a living off of doing what I love. I will stop now unless me or my opinion is attacked, then I will be forced to respond. Tedb, hukt on fonics werkt fore mee!*lol* |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts
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I'm not mad at all that you didn't like it...i offered you your money back?...take me up on it...oh its a copy
 answer the question...you keep saying that there are 100's of alternatives...name 2...thats what I asked...name 2 that's goes into any of these issues in detail? NAME 2 dvd sets?...
you have the right to your opinion and you have clearly stated it... but you still cant name 2....and then I will talk about why its different.. I have said straight up, right form the beginning that this is a great set for someone who is new, who doesn't have years of experience...someone again like paul green wouldn't get much from it...however, a new guy...this will certainly speed up his learning curve...and you just say, old stuff, don't buy it...well its not old to everyone...READ THE REVIEWS....but before you do...name 2 dvd's that are focused on this topic that has this much info?,... |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-01-24 19:24, tedb wrote: This is what I have been saying the whole time! Good for newbies, a repeat for oldies or people with a larger collection. As far as me copying this I cant believe you would accuse me of something like that. Why don't you scroll back to one of my earlier posts when I asked you if I should send you the whole thing because I don't have a receipt. You never responded to that. Please don't accuse me of something like that. I am not sitting near the collection of restaurant stuff. Can you tell me what this has on it that is not elsewhere? Sure it is a collection of different performers briefly touching on important aspects of restaurant magic. But what about someone who has a large collection? What would be gained from owning this? I feel that I gained nothing. Not because I know everything but because I had heard it before. Can you enlighten me? Maybe I missed something...Its like a good class in college, you have already heard it and own the textbook. Should you take the class and buy the texbook again? |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts
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I was joking about the copying thing...see smiley face
NO NO, you know everything..you have hundreds of dvd's that are geared towards restaurant work NAME 2 that focus on these topics I have talked about NAME 2 dvd sets...do you know why you cant?...because no one has ever done this before...thats right, there was an attempt many years ago by stevens magic...and the other attempt and which is a great dvd but just one dvd is the stone dvd...THATS IT that's why you cant name them becuase you don't own them because they don't exist this is a one of a kind set...PERIOD! name 2? COME ON! theres so much stuff out there...thats what you said...NAME 2 YOU CANT! |
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Heygeno New user 92 Posts
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts
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Well, I have performed magic in restaurants on and off since the 80’s. I did it as a waiter ( I had no clue as to what table hopping was and used my hobby to entertain tables on slow nights ) bar magic ( had no idea about Heba, Bob Sheets, Doc Eason, J.C and when I got to see what they offered I realized I was no where in their league ) and have done it with the knowledge of what the art was about.
That being said, I LOVE At The Jailhouse. Did I hear things a I already knew? Sure. Did I see things I’d never seen? YES. I know Kirk Charles form his book, but never saw him perform. WOW-incredible. Paul Green is one my magic heroes, so I would have gotten this to see him. I could go on about the performers as well. Here’s something to consider:. Here’s sales 101-knock on 100 doors and one of them will buy. There you go. Why on earth are Millions spent each year on sales seminars, books, tapes, etc.? Because it’s inspiring to hear people that are experts in the field tell how to do it. Live at The Jailhouse appeals to so many people on all levels and at all stages of there career. If 1000 people love something’s and 2 hate it, who am I most likely to listen to? I have gotten two ideas from this set that I couldn't attach a price to. Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Posted: Jan 18, 2007 11:06 pm 
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