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NJJ
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I had a potential customer ring me for a gig. I had done work for a sister company for $3300. The new customer knew this is how much I charged previously because the original client recommended me..

My new fee for 2006 is $4000. When she heard this she went NUTS! She yelled and ranted about how I was way too expensive and no one would ever hired me and she could get the same for $1800 and I was kidding myself.

So for the next day I walked around doubting my fees and feeling generally crappy about myself and my business.

Then the next day ANOTHER sister company also rang me. A person in the SAME position who knew the SAME information, had the SAME recommendation for the SAME service (on the same date too!)

When I quoted my price she didn't blink and booked me on the spot.

The Moral? Often we base on prices on the people who say no. The people who yell and rant. The people who CAN'T afford us and DON'T book us. Really though, if you are charging a good fee for a good product, people are bound to say no at some point. Instead, we should focus on the people who DO book and don't get caught up in the emotional side of pricing.
LeeDillingham
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Some people are just jerks and they will complain about the price no matter what you quote. More typical for me is some scretary calls me. They are just handling the booking for their employer and could care less how much it costs as long it falls into some designated budgeted line item.

I get a little of everything. Many people have never booked entertainment before and do not have a clue how much it costs.
Donald Dunphy
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Nicholas -

I have also been at the receiving end of rants about my fees, which made me feel belittled, and doubtful if I was doing the right thing in the fees I charged. But then others book, and are cheerful about it, not batting an eye about the price.

The thing to remember is that if this person is complaining so loudly about your fee now, wouldn't they likely be a complainer about other things as well? You probably dodged a bullet by being "too expensive", and eliminated working for a "nitpicker".

BTW, I am always careful to try to be respectful to them, even if they are rude to me. I say something along the lines of, "I am sorry that we disagree about this. My customers are very happy with my work, and feel that they received good value for my fee. But I will be the first to admit my services aren't for everyone. I can tell my show is not right for you. Thank you very much for calling, and considering my show." The great thing about saying that, is that you are polite, but you also withdrew the offer of your services from them.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
NJJ
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I think most magicians base their prices based on the fear of missing out on a gig or be belittled for their prices.

I have head few magicians worry they are too cheap. I have heard MANY say "Oh I couldn't put my price up...i worry no one will book me"
Destiny
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Can I veer into psychology?

I had a man yell and rant at me all through my childhood, and consequently in my working life, tended to take as gospel anything that was yelled or ranted at me.

Finally realised these people are insecure and socially dysfunctional . Their yelling and ranting probably has nothing to do with the issue they are supposedly addressing and therefore anything they say is irrelevant.

I don't listen to a word they say. I don't argue - they are not open to other points of view or other peoples concerns.

When I have gone against instinct and done jobs for these people - doing the job has been worse than getting it. If they are rude when booking you - nothing you do on the job will be right - and you certainly will not prove to be worth what they are paying you.

I quite happily just hang up the phone on these people. They can tell people what they like about me - I won't be the only one they treat like this.
SoCalPro
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Nicolas,
What type of service are you providing for $3000-$4000?

JIM
NJJ
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Jim - Since this is a public thread and I don't want to go into details of this situation I have sent you a PM.

Protect the guilty and so on....
SoCalPro
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I understand completely. Smile

JIM
NJJ
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I will say though that this was not one show but several....

(just so you don't think I'm bragging about getting thousands for one show)
Chad C.
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Well, I only have one thing to say...I can't raise my prices...then no one would book me...

Just kidding. I no longer haggle over price - they either agree or disagree, and it is much more relaxing when you don't have to worry about "negotiating" the price.
HypnotizeAmerica
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Nick -

Focus your time, talent, and energy on the markets that can afford you and not the ones that can't. One price fits most is one quote I've heard. You don't want to fix in everyone's price range.

Just my opinion.

TC
impossible man
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I have a 45-minute and a 30-minute show, if I think the client has a tight budget, I quote prices for both, and sometimes they just opt for the shorter show. I did this today with a client who was referred to me, and I knew their target price. It wasn't much below mine, so I just gave them a quote for my regular prices this way, and sold the show.

I'm glad I didn't just agree to their lower price without asking. They have a whole party full of events, and I knew a couple of dollars would not be a hardship.
Dean Gilbert
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jlevey
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Great input on an important subject.

Ammar's audio tape on Negotiating higher fees is both inexpensive and highly valuable for those new (and not so new) to the game. It;s an "old" recording, but the insights and advise shared are timeless. At $10, it is a hidden treasure waiting to be enjoyed by those not yet compfortable or famioliar with the art of negotiating: http://www.ammarmagic.com/cart/index.php......p;catId=
24&ccSID-a6e70b027d696f1d3afe13fa71f85b8e=e54c83e165675f18cde94ca422b34deb

I too have been steadily raising my fees, losing those clients that do not have the budget (but 'may' next year) and securing new (and return) clients at the revised fees. Less volume, but more work done on qualifying my prospects before and during our conversations.

Best wishes for all to as you work to secure the fees you deserve, and feeling good (and proud) about it. Of course the negotiation process should ultimately be mutually satisfying (for both the entertainer and the client).

Jonathan
Jonathan
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rossmacrae
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I'll second that about Ammar's tape!
Dannydoyle
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Nick I commend you for keeping your price where you want it.

The fact is that people will dictate our price. No way arround it. Try charging about 40 grand an hour and see how much work you get. So the public does indeed dictate pricing.

Nick is right about not fearing the loss and pricing because of it.

Implied in Nicks post, which again I commend, is the fact that A) his price goes up with time. FANTASTIC.
B) he has SET pricing. I am a fan of this. It shows integrity to me. Now I know the "salami" theory and yea it is great for others. Just not for me. To me it makes me feel too much like a bad salesman. I have found the right pricing that will keep me busy. THAT is the key for me.

By the way the "salami" theory is what Ammar aspouses. Works great for him, but not for me.

Nick let me just say BRAVO!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kipp Sherry
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Nick,

I had a very similar event happen to me just last week. A lady called and asked my price and then she went off on how that was way to much. She asked if I could reduce my rate and she would pay a lesser amount and give me a receipt for a donation to cover the balance. I told her I do donate shows for some charitable organizations and asked her which organization she was affiliated with. She said it was just a neighborhood block party. The bottom line, she only wanted to pay $50.00 for 2 hours of magic in front of a crowd of 500 adults and children. Let's see, 10 cents a head for 2 hours of entertainment, the last time I saw those kind of prices were the movies back in the 1950's. I didn't even question my rates when I turned that job down.

Until we appear again,
Kipp Sherry
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jlevey
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Kip Sherry wrote...

"...She said it was just a neighborhood block party. The bottom line, she only wanted to pay $50.00 for 2 hours of magic in front of a crowd of 500 adults and children. ..."

Boy, that sure is a BIG block that she lives on!!! lol

With those numbers, perhaps you should have consdiered passing the hat!

Jonathan
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Donald Dunphy
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Quote:
On 2006-10-21 18:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
Implied in Nicks post, which again I commend, is the fact that A) his price goes up with time. FANTASTIC.
B) he has SET pricing. I am a fan of this. It shows integrity to me. Now I know the "salami" theory and yea it is great for others. Just not for me. To me it makes me feel too much like a bad salesman. I have found the right pricing that will keep me busy. THAT is the key for me.

By the way the "salami" theory is what Ammar aspouses. Works great for him, but not for me.


BTW, I also have Michael's tape, but am not a fan of the salami method either. I'd rather give customers a few options to choose from in different budget ranges, as opposed to adding on and adding on until they say no. By asking a few questions first, you know which options to offer.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
jlevey
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There's many more practical insights/strategies containted in the Ammar tape on Negotiating than just the Salami technique. I too like presenting different show options/packages for the client to choose from, depending on their particular budget and pariticular entertainment needs.

The Ammar tape was simply one suggestion for visitors to this particular post to consider when considering ways to set their pricing,and probably deserves to be posted seperately inthe Café's review section... perhaps it has been .

Now.. on to other suggestions great on pricing....

Jonathan
Jonathan
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Magicians with a touch of comedy!
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Leland
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Always stick to your prices...There will always be someone that won't agree with you but the others make up for it!!
Life of Magic!
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