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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ This deck feels light! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tommy
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How many cards from a deck can you hold out without the dealer catching on?

I don't how, but I can tell by feel when there is just one card misssing sometimes and I can almost always tell when there is 4 or more missing.

If that is common then how does anyone get away with holding out when the dealer isn't in on the play?

Not to mention that in a formal poker games the the stub is often counted.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pavloter
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You can just use that method which Doc mentioned, when someone counts cards in the deck, all you do is recount while adding cards to the deck.
Pavlo
tommy
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Thatís a bit like papering over the cracks. If I think the deck is light, the first thing I do is spread the deck, to see if I can see all four Aces.
Itís too risky in more ways than one to hold out in a serious poker game I think. Unless the dealer is with you and even then its very risky.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
andrewph
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People who handle cards a lot can tell almost right away if some cards are missing. But I guess every deck is different. If you pick up a deck cold I doubt anyone could tell if any cards were missing unless it was a large amount.
Expertmagician
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I think that 2 cards is detectable if a person is used to handling a certain brand name of cards.

I personally can tell the difference on Bees and Bicycles. But, I think the stock may vary sleighty between decks...so, it may be harder to tell..depending upon the quality stock.
Long Island,

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Pavloter
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Quote:
On 2006-10-30 14:45, andrewph wrote:
People who handle cards a lot can tell almost right away if some cards are missing. But I guess every deck is different. If you pick up a deck cold I doubt anyone could tell if any cards were missing unless it was a large amount.

Yea this true, they can tell only if they held that deck before. And all you must do is just get ****ed off if it happens and make sure no one would suspect you did that. If you sly enuff, you could slip the caqrd in persons next to you jacket pocket, and if you are pretty touchy with people it will works much better. But once again the best method it just try to put card back in the deck, and give some one else to recount it, so it wont be as you who noticed it. And if anyone accuses you I think it is unethical, and you just should accuse them back of doing it.
Pavlo
sodman12
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raleigh
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Moral of this discussion is

Tis better to win on your deal then you get caught mucking on someone elses deal.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 15:04, Pavloter wrote:
If you sly enuff, you could slip the caqrd in persons next to you jacket pocket, and if you are pretty touchy with people it will works much better.


Just how badly would you like your ass kicked? If I see, feel or hear anybodys hand anywhere near my pockets, I'll break that arm for 'em. Believe that.

I would not suggest that little maneuver in any circumstance. Better to just throw the *** thing on the floor and plead ignorance. (make sure to convey the proper amount of righteous indignation.)
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
tommy
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In a casino, I donít know but I am told, that if the dealer finds that a card is missing, he does not say anything, but just asks for a new deck. Then when they change dealer he tells the card room manager. I am not sure what happens from there but I guess they check the eye. I think the casino in poker just like to keep things quite and every one happy. They maybe prefer not see anything and would be happy to just find a card on the floor after the game, with no one any the wiser.

I know they have a responsibility and reputation, and canít have guys cheating, but it donít half cause some problems when a dealer says, there is card missing, and then some one finds it on the floor in the middle of a game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pavloter
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Quote:
On 2006-11-02 18:32, tommy wrote:
In a casino, I donít know but I am told, that if the dealer finds that a card is missing, he does not say anything, but just asks for a new deck. Then when they change dealer he tells the card room manager. I am not sure what happens from there but I guess they check the eye. I think the casino in poker just like to keep things quite and every one happy. They maybe prefer not see anything and would be happy to just find a card on the floor after the game, with no one any the wiser.

I know they have a responsibility and reputation, and canít have guys cheating, but it donít half cause some problems when a dealer says, there is card missing, and then some one finds it on the floor in the middle of a game.

In casino they deal from dealing shoe(Blackjack), so they can't really know have they lost cards or not, but if they noticed that some cards are missing from picking up cards I think they would need to change deck and if they knew from which pile it was missing they propably would need to report to pit boss, but it is for blackjack. I don't see much point for mucking in poker, it is just to long and risky. And here in UK, in poker rooms players shuffle the deck and cut as well, which is really good. But still mucking is not that great in poker, unless you muck entire hand.
Pavlo
tommy
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I was referring to poker in a casino.

Normally, poker in a UK casino is dealt by a dealer and players do not cut or deal, the dealer does.

The only time I have ever seen players deal themselves is in a casino was in cheap comp, when the casino were short of dealers at the start.

Mucking an a card in a poker game and switching it in when you need it is a good advantage, if you can get away with it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dave V
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I read somewhere that the typical human response to differences is about 5%. Using that model, you should be able to detect about two cards missing, assuming you held the deck recently so you have something to compare to.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
tommy
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Dave that's interesting. I wonder if that goes for other stuff like moves. I mean if for example a bottom deal is 5% + different than a fair deal then the typical human would spot it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Peter Woerde
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Keep in mind that a poker dealer holds a full deck only a short amount of time. The rest of the time the deck is light because of cards dealt to players, burn cards and board cards. My guess is that it's pretty difficult for a dealer to notice one card missing because the number of cards he holds is constantly changing. Most dealers are not holding full decks every minute of the day in their spare time like we do.
sodman12
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raleigh
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I would say that a dealer could detect if one card was missing before he was dealing now after that I would say it would be impossible since he wouldnt know how many cards are suposed to me missing (although he could count). But I can find I situation in which cards would be missing after he dealt but not before.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
tommy
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Dealers, in a casino at least, will count the Stub from time to time. "The Stub" is what's left, after they have deat out the cards.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
acesover
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I play quite a bit of Poker in Atlantic City. In Bally's Showboat and The Taj they all use 2 decks and alternate them from one hand to the next. When they are dealing the deck not is use is in an antomatic card shuffler built into the table. The shuffler counts the cards as it shuffles them. So any card or cards missing will show up at once.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
tommy
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I have not played where they use them things yet but I have seen them being used on TV. I am sure they will be here in England and everwhere soon.

Does anyone know how much they cost? I am wondering... it would be cool to put one in a private high stakes poker game and rig it! The dealer just cuts when the new deck come up out of table dosn't he, which would not a big problem and you could put a cooler in as and when you wished. How hard could be to rig it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
acesover
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I would imagine they are quite expensive and probably only sold to Casinos...but money talks. The easiest way is to have something very similar built into your table and put a small guy in the bottom and let him set it, ha ha....

The ideal canadiae woule be Tatu (Fantasy Island)...De Plane , De Plane.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
sodman12
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raleigh
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But if you were mucking your only switching out cards for different ones not changing the amount in play.

Am I missing something?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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