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ES Andrews New user 60 Posts |
Do you think that if an aspiring card cheat spent as much time, effort, and money on becoming a really good card player instead of cheating techniques, he would make as much or more money than using underhanded methods?
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
No.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Probably not...but, he will live longer
At a minimum, the "really good card player" should be educated in cheating techniques...so he can defend himself against those who are not as honest "COME TO THE DARK SIDE, MASTER LUKE ! "
Long Island,
New York |
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ES Andrews New user 60 Posts |
OK, you've convinced me, I'll keep on practicing.
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EMVT New user 52 Posts |
Being a really good card player takes plenty of time to get good depending on the game you are willing to master. Just to quote expertmagician here, he is definitely right! You must be aware of everything that goes on at the table you're playing. You'd be surprised at how many guys are out there that want an edge, or even better on the offbeat. If you're not paying attention they make their kill, depending on what they're gonna do. Lets also not forget c********n. Trust me. It happens in almost every game I play. So, yeah, study hard and practice plenty.
EMVT |
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Pavloter Special user 529 Posts |
Playing cards is depending on players skill and on luck. And even if you are the pros pro, if the cards aren't right you will lose. And if you can cheat, it doesn't mean you can win money if you can't play it right. So you need to learn how to play anyway.
Pavlo
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Pavloter is right, just cheating is not good enough, you must know how to play well. In addition....playing cards is supposed to be fun and enjoyable....if you are busy cheating, it is no longer fun and your nerves will be on edge.
Also, if you win all the time, no one will play with you.....poker, like life, is give and take....while being fair:-) But, to each his own.
Long Island,
New York |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Guys you must answer the question completely.
A "cheat" of some variety can indeed make huge amounts of money. Without the pesky need to have a giant bankroll to cover the inevitable run of cold cards or dice that will follow the simple "really good player". Now if you don't get caught, then is it worth it? Jail, or possible risk to limb or even life is not for everyone. Not for me personally. Forget the moral questions, I don't like to risk my life for money or my freedom. The penalties are pretty big for cheating a casino. Actually I should say they were in years past, I haven’t checked of late. So for me it is not worth it, for many it is. Just know what you’re getting into.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Paul Wingham Veteran user Rustington, South Coast, UK 365 Posts |
Check this list out, http://www.pokertop10.com/world_poker_tour_players.html
I'm sure they’ll tell you there's a better living to me made playing straight. Certainly compared to the risk involved. |
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C. Loubard Special user 615 Posts |
It is interesting to read all of these replies. Certainly, money is not the only motivating factor for all cheats.
I know of at least one person, while he certainly doesn't need the money, does it for the sheer adrenaline. To this person it is akin to someone bungee jumping or skydiving. Most gamblers, I would argue, gamble for the euphoria they must feel upon winning. Certainly the wealthy don't need the money, yet there you find them "gambling". One can certainly generalize as to the motivation for a person to cheat, but it is certainly impossible to ascertain as to the motives that drive each one individually. That being said, it is only fair to assume, to some it is worth the time spent in learning the skills needed to cheat. It may not be about the money! C. Loubard |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-30 13:35, Paul Wingham wrote: The period of 1650 ~ 1800 is known as the Age Of Reason and Enlightenment, it seems we now live in the Age of Gullibility.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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TheCount New user 49 Posts |
If you're interested in making money playing cards is a bad way to do it period. You'll never meet the billionaire card player, either cheat or straight up player. It's also noteworthy that as a general rule, the higher the stakes become (and you need big stakes to make big money), the more controlled the environment is and consequently the more difficult it is to cheat. How many casual games have you heard of where they are playing with $50 000 chips?
If you are doing it for the money, don't. Go get into business instead. The only way you will ever make truly massive amounts of money is by having other people working for you. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
You would have thought that the guys using this forum, would have understood what the Introduction in Expert at the Card Table is telling them: All professional card players are cheats or they must be enjoying more than average luck.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
The pro poker players, that I happen to know, do cheat by way of collusion.
I would not know if every pro cheats, but the ones I know do. You can make a living playing straight poker because you can get sponsored these days and that sort of give you a legal edge. I am not saying there is no skill factor in playing poker but a lot of the players are very much on a level par.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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boinko Elite user Illinois 427 Posts |
Assume for the moment that you're able to cheat without fear of bodily harm. (Which seems to be all anyone is worried about here.)
My question would be: is not the proper methodology for cheating as complex as the proper methodology for "not cheating?" In other words -- and I'm asking because I don't know, so be kind -- you can't just go out and start "cheating." There's as much strategy to cheating as there is playing straight. And there are downsides to cheating -- bodily harm, yes, but also just being found out as cheat. Being "found out" would do damage to a cheater's potential bankroll -- just as losing to a cheat would do a non-cheater's bankroll (or just losing in general would do). Is there long-term profit in cheating? Or is it just a short-term thing? Would not a cheater have to randomize his cheating as much as a good playing randomizes his non-cheating? And if cheating is as randomized as non-cheating -- does this take any of the edge off cheating? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
There is no profit in not cheating your just going to finish level. You have to be a good player and cheat to cheat to make a profit. That is what I observed anyway. Erdnase promotes the idea of using safe moves only. None the less nothing is 100% safe but if your going to use move on regular basis it’s got to be very close 100% safe. If it’s say 99% safe you will get caught 1 in every 100 times you use it. If you use such a move twice a night you will last 50 days.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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cardima New user 53 Posts |
I think that cheating isn't worh it on the long run
a. you can be caught-(and you'll probebly will)...also because I am a magician a heard a lot of stories from people that told me that they lost their brother or cousin because of that b. I play poker and when I was thinking about cheating I lost focus on the game and did mistakes that I usually wont do and lost my attention to the other players moves c.if you play in a game that every new game someone else dealing so you don't have a big edge(unless you can switch cards perfectly)...much wiser will be play better then the others, this way you have an edge in every game |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-01 02:58, TheCount wrote: Some of the biggest action you'll see is in private games. Read up on the side games that take place during the WSOP. You obviously don't know what you're talking about...
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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C. Loubard Special user 615 Posts |
I agree with Mr. Z.
I have been in the midst of big money home games, at least what most of us would consider big money games. I didn't play, but witnessed players losing up to $20,000 a hand and not give it a second thought. In fact, They would just laugh, keep drinking and continue having a good time. Of course, when you talk big money, it is all relative. C. Loubard |
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TheCount New user 49 Posts |
We aren't saying it doesn't happen, just that it's rare, the average person isn't exposed to games like that, isn't going to be likely to find games like that, let alone play in them regularly.
I fully acknowledge you probably know more about it than I do, but I do stick to my point, as a means of making very large sums of money, it's a lousy one, it simply doesn't involve the earning potential you can get in business, not even close. Please note, I did say casual, not private, there is a difference, not that it impacts the final issue, you'll never meet the billionaire who made his money off cards, even the luckiest end up touting their millions. I'd be interested in hearing some of your stories though. |
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