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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ebooks, PDF's or Downloads » » New Magic Course - Dugdale/Jay (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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paymerich
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Norwalk, CT
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Well put Danny . Extremely well put .
I am sick of these guys who come in say if you don't own the effect/book/course/DVD, you can't comment on it. That irks me to no end. Obviously the course creators have not done a good job of informing people on its overall contents. I am not gonna shell out $600 bucks for a course that does not even list its table of contents or at least print the PDF's out for me ? Look if the product is so good do what other companies do ; Price it competively and sell as many as you can . I am sticking to my initial statement, its probably an average to good course that some people will see as gold to them and other just plain old brass.
Have a Magical Day!
<BR>
<BR>The Maniacal Mage
<BR>
<BR>Pablo Aymerich
<BR>Norwalk, CT 06851
PRINCE
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I bet Richard Stones fingers are dying to start typing away Smile
Scott F. Guinn
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"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
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I'm with you guys regarding the people with 2 posts coming here, posting ONLY on this topic and denigrating anyone who is the least bit skeptical or critical of the course. How do we know that these two people are not the same person under two different names, or even one or both of the course's authors incognito? Answer: we simply don't know that.

It's one thing if a "name" magician makes these claims, or even a long-time Café member who has earned our trust. But someone who has never before posted here, coming to THIS topic and instructing the rest of us on proper decorum at The Café, well...

I've checked out a lot of these courses. Most of them would be worthwhile as a $15 paperback book, but instead are sent as "installments' at exorbitant prices. Many of them are simply from books on marketing and sales with "magic" inserted where "type of business" was in the books.

I also share Danny's reservations about UK courses claiming to tell US magicians how to go about marketing here. One prominent UK magician (maybe even THE most prominent one!) put out a "course" like this a couple of years ago. He borrowed HEAVILY from my Pro-Files columns and one of my books without permission or credit--even going so far as to taking entire articles word-for-word, right down to, "a magician named Scott who worked at a restaurant chain called Smoky Mountain Pizza and Pasta"!

All that is neither here nor there regarding THIS course. My biggest problems with this one:
1) Very high prices for the DVDs.
2) The manuscript being sent in "monthly installments."
3) The "free" one-day seminar. You get to choose between London and New York. With airfare, hotel and meals, that's going to cost thousands of dollars to go that "free" seminar. Worth it for a multi-day convention, but not for one day, IMO.

I wouldn't be able to go to the seminar, and I am unwilling to pay $600 for a few props that I may or may not already have (I already know enough tricks), a couple of DVDs and 12 PDFs. For a magician in London or NYC, though, it may be well worth your money.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
Michael T
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Hi, I suspect that "Richard Stone" and "Fred Eric Sharp" are two false people. I have never heard of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the two writers of the course.
fredericsharp
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Very interesting .... You've never heard of us so we must be "false people". I have never heard of you myself! I used to work under a different name (ie Frederic Shark) instead of "Sharp". Here is link to a past FFFF convention with my cocktail act, so you can see that I don't look like Phil Jay or Chris Dugdale http://www.mallofmagic.com/convpix/ffff2003/14SatSh2.htm.
Look guys, I am not trying to sell you this course. Quite the opposite. For me, the less people go on it, the better it is, as the information is really good and I don't want it to get diluted in the magic world. Also I am gratefull to the writers for making this available. As I told you, I am seeing the results already. Obviously, the course itself can only create success if you are motivated and you make of something of it. It's one thing to get given great business tips, it's another thing to apply them. Without giving too much away, I will just mention some of the great business tips in the course: how to get a residency and keep it. How to pick up hotels as clients. (I used this top tip and got myself a five star hotel as a new client). How to get asked for more business cards. How to get better fees. How to work a single table gig (and a great up-selling tip on the one table gig), and more....

Regarding their knowledge of the UK / US market, well Chris Dugdale lives and works in the USA (legally). Chris has a stamp of excellence on his passport (for "oustanding performance" I think it is called) and I believe he his the only magician from the UK to have this work permit. So Chris knows what he's talking about and he has performed at some of the most impressive gigs in the US including the United-Nations (twice I think).

If you go on the course and come to the one day seminar, I will be happy to shake your hand.
Best of British
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This course reminds me of those expensive 'Hope in a Can' products sold by that American chap Anthony Robbins.
Kevin Fox
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I would like to jump in ay this point' Fred Sharp is a full time pro who I'v known for about ten years, I don't get to see him as often as I would like because he is all over the world performing close up magic, I also know Chris Dugdale & have meet & talked to Phil Jay twice @ the sesions Convention here in the UK it was myself who mentioned the course to Fred after a discusion I had with Mark Mason. Fred subsequently gave me a call to thank me' & went on to tell me all about how bennificial the course has been, I was was so impressed by what he told me I decided to take the course myself & every thing he said was true , I should explain that close up is my passion, & I spend far to much on my passion & travel all all over the world to attend conventions, because after a life time in business I can & although I only perform about Once a Month on a paying job ( just to keep my hand in)& because my health isn't great I have to take it easy. I under stand you being suspicious @ times but the man is genuin.And who am I, well
Im a sixty five year old close up nut who just want's to read my book's & practice the next routine . Take it easy, Kevin.
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Anyone that is even thinking about taking this course, please read and re-read Danny Doyle and Scott Guinn's thoughts. I think they will help you make a wise choice and save you a lot of money and frustation.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Scott F. Guinn
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"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
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Let me just make this clear...

I never said Frederick WAS Phil or Chris. I just said that we had no way of knowing that he WASN'T. Frankly, at this point, I believe him, and it sounds like this course has really helped him. I think that's great. I am NOT in Steel's camp here.

If I lived in NYC or London, I might consider buying this course. But I live in Idaho, which mean that with expenses, the course costs skyrocket. That, along with the other considerations I mentioned in my previous post, makes me choose to pass on it. But, for someone with the bucks or who lives in those two cities, it may well be a very worthwhile investment.

For the rest of us, I can recommend Adam Christing's "Getting the Gigs" as a good (and quite affordable" alternative. I believe it's still available from Brad Burt.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
mag1c kev1n
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I want to hear what the REAL pros think of this. I'm talking martin cox, mike keech, ash marlow, sean heydon, martyn rowland, stuart watkins, max butler, dave bonsall, ian hamilton, richard penna, barrington powell, jim langley, alex lodge, jimmy carlo, jordan o grady, tj spencer, bruce munton, simon grant... The real workers!
Iain Moran
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Manchester, England
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Just thought I'd jump in here. I too have known Frederic for about 10 years and I can confirm that he is not or indeed bears no resemblance to, either Chris Dugdale or Phil Jay.

He is one of the busiest Magicians here in the North West (UK) and recently performed at The Session convention along with Allan Ackerman, Paul Cummins etc.

Please gentleman, lets be nice to each other and get back on topic.

Iain.
Craig Kyle
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Evidence would suggest that Fred is a real magicina but I very much doubt that Richard stone is a real magician. His website looks like a sham website for amagic fakir.
wallythe wizard
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Hi,
I shelled out for the course right from the outset in full I am more than happy with the contents so far, I have been a full time pro for 15+years I have the marketing courses , randy cahraach dave dee ext. but this is more CREATING MIRACLES, D ORTIZ with tricks expalined combined with specific marketing and informed does don'ts and inside info. hard to explain but its not simply another marketing book
Turk
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Portland, OR
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Richard Stone is a real magician. He took the plunge about 1 1/2 years ago and turned pro. I know Richard from another magic site that is essentially UK in members although it is run by an American. Between the webmaster and I and few other Americans, the site is essentially UK "all the way". But, I do know Richard from that other site from before the time he turned pro.

I've been following Richard's progress these last 18 months and he is doing splendidly (or at least better than he ever expected to beding 18 months into a "cold start-jump in feet first" transition into magic pro).

Way to go, Richard!!

Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Best of British
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I know most UK magicians but have never heard of Richard Stone.

Sounds like someone took RICHARD Osterlind and David STONE and combined their names to come up with Richard Stone.

I will be able to verify whether Richard Stone is a real person or not within a week because of the contacts and network I have. Stay tuned.
Aaron Lucas
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Anyone think it's kind of odd that this course is so good that the people who bought it don't want anyone else to know about it, yet two of those people have registered on the Café specifically to tell us how great is and how we should all sign up!?
Just a magic lovin dude
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Aaron, I think you summed it up!!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Best of British
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After talking to well known members of the magic community here in the UK I can verify that Richard Stone is a genuine magician.

However, he is also part of a team of magicians who work together to get gigs. Guess who two of the other members are?

You guessed it, Chris and Phil.

Unfortunately this means his review of the course must be taken with a large pinch of salt.

For proof of my research simply visit http://www.teammagic.co.uk, scroll down to the bottom of the screen and you'll see some familiar names and faces bunched together.

In future reviewers should state their relationship to the owners of the products.

I feel let down that fellow Britains should seek to support each others work in a less then up-front manner.

I expect this behaviour from other countries but not from fellow Britains. Come on chaps, play the game.
Sooty
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London, England
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Zoinks!!!

I've just done a search on the course after seeing it advertised on jbtv.co.uk and found this thread.

I was going to sign up but now I'll reconsider.

Thanks Magic Café for saving me nearly 400 sheets. I'll spend the money on a PS3 instead.
David O
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Quote:
On 2007-03-25 15:19, Sooty wrote:
Zoinks!!!

I've just done a search on the course after seeing it advertised on jbtv.co.uk and found this thread.

I was going to sign up but now I'll reconsider.

Thanks Magic Café for saving me nearly 400 sheets. I'll spend the money on a PS3 instead.

Buy a wii. They're 400 dollars less, and on a wii, you can beat up pokemon with Solid Snake Smile (soon).
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