Yes, Carlos.

If you are happy with it, everyone is happy.

I have never done color changing knives and so I really was too busy looking for evidence of the holdout, and I didn't think very much of it at first. ANd I didn't even watch the explanation of the knives at first.

But then I got to thinking about it, and the number of changes, size, color, etc, and so I went back to watch it again. This time I watched it especially to see the knives, and I really appreciated the magic. It truly was an excellent demonstration of the use and power of the holdout.

I still probably wont do knives as they aren't my style, but it really was a nice peice of work.

Now I am looking for more items and effects to adapt to use with the holdout.

BroDavid

HN Review 58: Perfect Hold out – Antonio Romero

AD:

After several years as one of Antonio Romero's most closely guarded secrets, The Perfect Holdout system is now available to you! Mr. Romero has pushed the classic "pull" into a whole new dimension that makes it a diabolical tool for effects of all kinds, whether you perform on stage or close-up.
The instructional video included with the holdout contains a detailed description of the device, its handling and many possible applications, including:
· Super Knives A new color-changing knife routine with double and triple changes, productions, knife stretching and more, ending with immediately handing the knives out for examination
· Incredible Card to Wallet The most surprising version of this classic effect in years, Antonio's version has fooled many well-informed magicians
· Multiple Vanish Cleanly vanish four coins together in a flash
Comes with the very special device and instructional video

REVIEW:

The initial setup is truly a huge pain. The poorly produced video does not help too much, and Banatar’s dubbing is often disturbing.

However, the gimmick works: you were promised a “small movements / large movements” pulley system, and this is what you get. No locking mechanism unfortunately, you will have to set it up before performance.

Overall rating: acceptable

H.

Review from a "Worker":

I've been working (I mean performing for paid performances close-up/strolling and stage)with the Perfect Holdout now for about 9 months. So I think it might be of interest to you who wonder how it plays in real venues. (I'll skip the questions on quality, video etc.).

-If you are hooked up, which really is NOT so difficult as some have mentioned (the more you do it the easier it becomes) this gimmick can put your work in the miracle-class. The temptation to clean up everything you perform is enourmous, so discipline and good thinking should be applied before going on the road.

-The first thing I noticed is that the attachment does not work right for me, so I changed it. I'd call it even an upgrade since even the routines that are explained, work better now (though I will never use them, I see them as demo-routines only). This has to do with two things: the way in which the magnet is positioned and the ease in which the attachment glides through the sleeve (read Jack Miller's thoughts on that last thing, very useful!)

-One of the really big draw-backs is that there is no lock. I realise it would increase the price greatly, but if you're really working with it a lock can not be omitted. I haven't yet found a solution for this...
Going in and out of the inside jacketpocket is the only other way, which is not pleasant especially in "sweaty circumstances".

-Again these "sweaty circumstances" make working with long sleeves actually more shure-fire than short sleeves, although one might think it's the other way around. The attachment tends to stick to your skin...

-Psychologically you should learn where to use it during performance. With sleight of hand magic the sleeves are always suspect. Personally I use it only for two routines which are both closers. So I use it after repeatedly "proving" my sleeves have nothing to do with the magic.

-The magnetic attachment really makes for some very clean vanishes/productions. At this moment I don't even consider using an attachment that will take effort to get the props attached. The hand does not have any motion during the use of the hold-out which is excellent. Any clipping, hanging, squeezing or positioning in other attachments I have yet to be convinced of.

-Since you put the attachment in your inside jacketpocket, it takes up space. Normally there is a Mullica wallet in there, which makes using the pocket a little crowded. I intend to make a little extra pocket just for the attachment.

-Being rigged for the holdout means the other end is attached to your wrist. When using it in a routine this is no problem, but when not using it, it feels awkward and lessens your freedom of movements. If you de-attach it it will be practically impossible to hook up during a performance without some very unnatural sleeve-pulling and fishing. something to be solved defenitely.

-When I decided to use this I made one promise to myself which I think is essential for not tresspassing the TooPerfect theory: No barehanded-stand alone vanishes! This may sound incredible but look at this picture...A magician has an object in his hands and the object vanishes...what solution do you think the lay audience has for this? Really...
In the two routines I use the PH it delivers and retracts something that is never seen by the audience. I only vanish an "extra" which is never openly seen and I have some vanishing handlings which are part of a transposition-effect and a penetration-effect.
I think the barehanded vanish of an object might lead to the dreaded over-exposure of this system. It should only be dome by someone who has worked (and thought about) this for years, not beginners like you and me.
Remember the Topit over-exposure...

As a conclusion I'd like to say that Antonio Romero's product is more than worth it's money. This method will put you lightyears ahead in your effects both for magicians and laymen. It brings your thinking so much further, but in the same time you should be very disciplined in the why, when and how of such a "weapon". Or even more important in the why-not, how-not, when-not.
This will take years to master, but these are lessons that will improve your magical thinking drastically.
The PH is certainly not perfect but the nessecary modifications could be done even by a technical nitwit like me.
Best of all, It puts me in the right direction to develope my own personal system!

For SERIOUS performers highly recommended by this working professional.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thank you for your great review. It help me a lot.
Will you please tell me how to upgrade the system and what attachment you have changed. Thanks

I also have the PH and I exactly have the same impression of Dan, the PH is a great utility wich help you to make REAL magic but this PH could be improved for the locking and the attachment, and I will surely working on it. I also have to find the miller book to learn more about the holdout.
Do some of you know where to find this history piece of magic( the jack miller book about the holdout)
Thanks a lot in advance.

Denny and Lee's has the book HERE for $4.50.

I'm very impressed just 4.5$ for a 66page book, amazing.
Do people know if the "invisible hand" book from vernet is also good or better or not necessary. Wich one is better but well i guess i could take both for this price

Thanks

Hold Out Miracles is more of a history lesson. The original Miller holdout was very crude and most of the routines are dated- but if you are truely intersted just buy it - you can spend more money than the book costs for breakfast.

The Vernet book is a little better it is sold with the Vernet Invisible Hand holdout which is an improved Miller holdout, though still crude. It is $50.

Dan,
What do you find "dated" about the routintes in Hold Out Miracles? Granted, there are always different methods of some or all of the effects...but I have found them to be thouroughly workable and miraculous to laypersons...

mds,

I am going from recollection, maybe I should go back and read it again - it has been a while. From what I remember, not much of the stuff appealed to me - except maybe the C&R rope routine.

Then again maybe its because I was reading it just for the education, not to actually learn the holdout.

Dan

I you have some real money, all issues for HO work (the real deal) can be found at BobKohler magic. This has been in R&D for 20+years, and is a thing of beauty. The PH is great, but if is to be compared to the Kohler/Fitch HO, then I would have to say it is the difference between riding a motorized scooter and driving a Rolls Royce. Just something to consider!

By the way, is anyone already really using the FK Hold-out?

btw, the new site for this effect is http://www.tallerdemagia.com

Are there any downloadable videos demonstrating it anywhere?

ATPG

Hmmm I just clicked on the FK Holdout banner ad on the main page of this forum, and it now has a FAQ and stuff that wasn't there before, and a button to actually purchase the holdout lease now.

When I saw Kohler at LVMI, I asked him how his project was going, he said that the DVDs were at the replicators and due back at the end of this month.

So I don't think anyone is using it yet Dan, but I would assume people will be pretty soon.

Ashkenazi, if you email Antonio Romero (I am pretty sure his email is on his website), I think he will email you back a video clip of him demo'ing his holdout.

There are a few of us who have it and are using it right now. The DVD's will be an astounding addition to the learning phase, as I believe it comes with 5 of them (There is allot of material covered). The real beauty of the FKHO is not what is currently done with it, but how it will alter magic in the future. (Mark my words!)

I received my Fitch Kohler Proffessional Holdout System yesterday , it is very well made , like all the Porper stuff , it comes in a very nice leather wallet ,5 DVD's with almost 6 hours of exercises , , tons of information , tricks
etc . , that is all I can say for now ...awesome

The Perfect Holdout is absolutely incredible. I have been working with it for about a month and a half now. The applications for it are virtually endless. The quality of the prop is extremely high and will last a lifetime (much higher than I expected for the price actually). This is not puffery - the design is such that there really isn't anything that could go wrong that couldn't be fixed with ease. If you use this for nothing more than the easiest multiple coin vanish you'll ever do, then I can tell you that you won't be disappointed (though I think this would be doing such an amazing tool an incredible disservice!).

Antonio Romero has given the magic community a wonderful utility item. Use a little creativity and you will not only begin to form new routines that simply weren't possibly before, but you will also be able to "clean up" routines that you currently do. This last benefit, for me, is actually the best aspect of the holdout.

I cannot praise it highly enough, and considering that you could buy almost 9 Perfect Holdouts for one base-model F/K model, it is an incredible bargain.

Of course for even a better bargain you can buy a spool of fishing line, a metal hook, a weight, a small magnet, some felt, and electrical tape, considering you could make 20 or so holdouts for the price of one Romero one. That is unless of course, spending extra money buys extra value...

I am not sure I understand your point, Dan. Other than the fact that you forgot to factor in the main component of the Perfect holdout in your cost analysis, it seems that while it is okay for people to sing highly the praises of the F/K holdout due to its enhanced functionality (which I would never begin to dispute), woe betide anyone who presents another option that compensates for less bells and whistles by being cheaper (actually, vastly cheaper) than the F/K system. They are immediately assailed by people with claims of "yes, but can it do this..." and "but think of the workmanship".

Ultimately, saying that spending extra money confers additional value is a truism in this case - it simply cannot be argued when considered in light of the F/K wonder. Does the additional value add up to the $1600 spread between the items? I can't say. I hazard to suggest that we will never know for sure, since the buyers of the two different models occupy a different socioeconomic class (and even then, a good dose of post-purchase cognitive dissonance would undubtedly play a role). My final contention is this - The Romero holdout offers much more functionality than anything that could be made from the list of ingredients you mentioned (unless you have a machine lathe and intimate knowledge of the ingenius concept by Antonio that affords a "little motion= big motion" response). The F/K holdout in turn offers greater attributes than the Romero holdout. Both offer the potential for marvelous miracles. Sing the praises of the F/K holdout all you will, but please don't refute the fact that just as you can hold the greater functions of the F/K holdout up as a great selling point (and should not be condemned for doing so), so too should those supporting Antonio's not be challenged for presenting the functional ingenuity and remarkably reasonable price of his system as a selling point.

Then there's Riser's system...

Hey Chris,

My post only addressed your final "bargain" statement, nothing else. Since you ended your post with the statement of a bargain on price, I was singing the praises of the ultimate bargain, that’s all. But then I recounted my statement with, though there may be reason to spend more, if you get some type of value. I chose to use less than the Romero price as a base line to determine "bargain". You used less than the F/K system as your base line to determine "bargain". What is the price of a bargain is relative. I never contended that one could make anything but a rudimentary bargain holdout with those materials. I never inferred that one could make a Romero unit with that list of items, nor inferred one could make a F/K system, or Riser for that matter. I would be forgetting to factor a great laundry list of main components of any of the more expensive holdouts.

You obviously do get more value for the Romero unit, thus the price.

I said nothing about the F/K unit at all in my previous post or about the difference in price between Romero's unit and the F/K system. That was said by you in your post.

I didn't assail you with any claims of bells whistles workmanship of the F/K system either.

To be honest, I support your praises of the Romero unit, I have seen one myself and I know for a fact that it is better than using the items I mentioned in my post. I will never condemn you or anyone for using it. I am not a condemning person. I consider myself to be a very reasonable, helpful person and all around "nice guy". I hope my Café posts attest to that, maybe I am delusional, who knows.

If you read back through this thread, you will see posts where I point people to Romero's website, and advise people to email him for video clips of his performances. Nothing disparaging.

Please read my post again it was very straight forward. It only two points:

1. The “better bargain on price”.
2. Bargain may not always be best. (Which actually supports your post).

Nothing more, nothing less.