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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
I was wondering if they make a gimmick cups and balls that doesn't require sleight of hand? Do they make a cups and balls that can do things for you instead of palming things?
§kitch
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
You can get the old Adams cups and use the routine that comes in the box which requires no sleights. I suppose you could also get three chop cups and 4 magnetic balls and create a routine of your own.
In reality however you should take the time and effort to learn a real routine. To paraphrase Fulghum "All I really need to know about Magic I learned from the Cups and Balls" It is a classic for a reason. You learn misdirection, timing, pace, basic sleight of hand, audience management and much much more. A lifetime of magical education all wrapped up in one magnificent effect. So go out and get a book and a set of cups, sit down in front of a mirror and start working on this most perfect of magical effects. So
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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jw_2101 New user Singapore 76 Posts |
Yup... chop cups... very cool stuff in a cups and balls routine
He is no fool who would give what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
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mwmagic Loyal user 262 Posts |
Consider plastic cups, rolled up s***ed balls of paper. Combine with a m*g****c ring and you have innocent props and maybe (?) greater effect.
Good luck Martin |
Euangelion Special user 688 Posts |
There are sets of cups for the Cups and Balls that include a Chop Cup these are often refered to as Combo Sets. Some people have assembled sets for the Cups and Balls involving three Chop Cups.
A question that must be considered is why would one want to do that. If one does not learn and master various aspects of sleight of hand as used to perform the C&B then inevitably you reduce the method to the point that it may be logically discernable to an observer. The use of a Chop Cup technique should therefore be sparingly used throughout a routine more like spice than like spaghetti sauce. The use of sleight out hand creates vanishes far away from the cups themselves. In fact, in many routines sleight of hand has little to do with loading the cups which often depends on other principles. Furthermore, the use of a Chop Cup cannot normally by itself accomplish the appearance of multiple balls under a single cup. This means one must again ask the question what does the limits such technique involves expand or limit a routine. The use of Chop Cup can add at least two vanishes unique to itself and a similar number of productions. Used properly these can amaze, used repeatedly they may be self-disclosing and weaken a routine. It is not hard to learn some of the basic sleight of hand moves needed for an excellent C&B routine. What is needed is understanding a variety of magical principles like one ahead, one behind, misdirection, timing, feint, and more. That is why it has often been said that to be acknowledged as a magician one must master the Cups and Balls.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
Euangelion, as you might expect I both agree and disagree. Let's get the agreement out of the way - I whole-heartedly agree with your postulate that the chopped feature of a cup should not be over-used in a combo cup routine. In my routine I use that feature precisely thrice, no more.
At the start of my routine the chopped ball is engaged under one cup. The other balls are held out in a ball holder. Thus I can set the cups on the table very cleanly each cup to be empty. Slapping the outer two cups atop the middle quite effectively and visibly produces a ball from nowhere and thus starts my routine in a startlingly way. The other two times that I use the chopped feature are, as you mentioned, not used immediately but seperated by significant time. So, as you can see, I agree with the bulk of what you said, don't overuse the effect, sprinkle the use of the effect through your routine. Where we differ is that it seems to me that you are denegrating the use of a combo set altogether. In this I must disagree. I feel that the three times that I use the cup strengthens my routine very much. Properly routined, a chop cup enhances the cups and balls without taking anything away from it. I haven't published my routine but the Mendoza routine is published and an excellent example of a very good combo routine. It can be bought from Morrissey Magic for under $10 |
flimnar Special user Salt Lake 577 Posts |
I agree with what has been said regarding learning a few sleights to use regular cups. There are relatively simple routines that look great with a little practice (see, for example, "25 Tricks with Cups and Balls"). Add in a chop cup if you wish and you'll be on your way. Of course, your interest in cups and balls is likely to expand geometrically once you start. There are complex and amazing things to learn out there.....
Flimnar
"This one goes to eleven..." Nigel Tufnel
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
There have been all sorts of cups made that had built in mechanics -- everything from things to pick the balls up and deposit them -- to spikes to pick a load up from a table top. Of these, only the chop cup has actually proved to have any "legs." Why? It's simple and it works.
But the only reason that I could see for needing to use these would be a true physical inablilty to perform any sleight of hand at all. If you can pick up a cup with one hand, you probably can do some sleight of hand. A simple vanish and a simple loading move are basically all you really need. And you don't need that much if you do the simple Adams routine. The main things you need are practice, rehearsal and guts.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-06 12:31, Bill Palmer wrote: Guts... Where do you get that? What DVD is it in???
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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François New user France 62 Posts |
Guts???!!! As a final load.....beurk... really disgusting.....You dare not Mister Palmer? Dare you???;)
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
"Night of the Living Cups"
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts |
Rik, not at all denegrating the combo cup set. I was simply responding to what I thought was the point of the original question using a gaffed cup to negate learning sleight of hand.
My point is simply that if one uses three chop cups in the routine without adding any sleight of hand skills or other feints the cups if used as is typical leads to the logical conclusion that the cups are in some way doing the dirty work. That is not a desirable outcome. I use a combo set myself at times. Used correctly it helps to eliminate other assumptions about how the work is done. One of my favorites is performing a vanish of a ball from a stack of cups by placing the Combo cup over the ball on top of another cup. In the middle of a routine this can be very helpful and powerful. I have an orignal signed and numbered copy of the Mendosa routine with tipped supplement. It is indeed a great routine. By the way how are the balls working out. One of my club members has been using his twenty times a day on the weekends at a Ren Faire and says they are holding up great.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-06 14:12, François wrote: They make a great final load. They can be a little messy to clean up, but with that kind of misdirection think of what you could do. For example, you could empty a room.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
flimnar Special user Salt Lake 577 Posts |
What's particularly nice is with a little careful selection, they can fit as loads in a variety of sized cups.....
Flimnar
"This one goes to eleven..." Nigel Tufnel
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François New user France 62 Posts |
In France with guts, we make really good cooking: Tripes à la mode de Caen, with a good White wine!!! Black or white buddin....mmmmm
Sorry for this, it's really out of subject.... |
bwarren3 Special user 518 Posts |
Skitch,
Take a look at David Regals' Cups & Balls & Cups & Balls. Great routine, well thought out plus not a lot of people doing this routine. |
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