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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Faux Paul Faux Plastic Cups! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chessmann
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This made me think about the time when I tried to remember if I had ever seen a cup made for drinking that was made out of copper. I couldn't. The only metal cups I could remember were the old sterling silver mint julip cups that my parents had (they were from Kentucky).

On another note, my brother and I used to have some chrome plastic cups back in the mid-70s. Don't remember the maker, but they were fairly sizeable and made in the traditional style. The inside of the cups was black, which I assume was the color of the plastic.

They were good cups. I remember the sound they made. The chrome looked nice, and didn't chip.

Wish I had them now!
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TheAmbitiousCard
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I remember my father had a copper drinking mug someone gave him as a gift. It was called a "growler" I believe. there was some BS insert that came with it that told why it kept drinks colder than other mugs by recirculating the air around the mug, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, right. Anyway, it was a nifty mug to set on your bookshelf.
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CJRichard
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Old copper drinking cups, pots and kettles were usually tinned inside because acidic liquids react with the copper.
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walid ahumada
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I have 3 cups,3 mugs and a jar made of copper, they look very old
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Bill Palmer
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They probably are. As far as drinking cups are concerned, copper and brass are not very normal choices these days, because of the way they react with certain foods. Non-lead pewter was an excellent choice for a cup, but it was quite soft.

BTW, if you do renfair work, avoid glass bottomed tankards as your normal drinking mug. The pewter ones are so soft that eventually they leak.

Glass, aluminum and ceramic are better choices for everyday drinking vessels.
"The Swatter"

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Bill Palmer
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Well, the Magic Makers Plastic PF copies arrived in today's mail. They are smaller than a PF cup. They are very light. They will not take a lacrosse ball, but they will take a Wal-Mart "Fun Ball."

They have a mold line that runs up one side of the cup and down the other.
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walid ahumada
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Are you getting pictures in the museum soon ?
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Bill Palmer
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Maybe tonight. More likely Sunday. Depends on how busy we get with Thanksgiving tomorrow. I have four sets of cups that I have photographed, but not posted the photos, and 8 sets to photograph. I usually wait until I have several sets to do before I photograph and post them.

The photography is simple. I have a setup that is geared specifically for photographing cups. Pete Biro gave me some suggestions that made a lot of sense.

The rest of it is involved in cropping the photos, enhancing them so the cups look right, and then posting everything to the web site. It takes about 15 minutes to photograph 6 sets of cups, if there is nothing unusual about them.
"The Swatter"

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Mad Jake
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I recieved my sets today and in all fairness I would have to say I would use these, or at least my cat would, to make sand castles in his litter box. 2 of the 3 cups had chips of the coating missing. The seam is annoying, to me at least, I don't think my cat will mind. I would choose an old set of Royal Magic tri-color cups over these and probally save 10 bux as well.

I'm not bashing Penguin on this, it's the manufacturing of the product. I would just be more selective, which I am, of what I was carrying in my store or whom we represent or promote. My opinions are solely based on the product, not who makes them or sells them.

On Tues. I recieved the mini Table hopping cups that appear to be like our Mini Paul Fox cups. Each cup had a different mouth bead roll, both the brass and the chrome are a lot thinner than the material we use. While they are good to get the job done, if you are concerned about how they actually look when performing, well that's a different story. If they took the time to control their quality, they would have some fine products, but we all know the bottom line is $$'s

Jake
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cinemagician
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Here's the deal. I would like to perform the cups and balls with a good paul fox/ danny dew set. But I'm not going to practice with a $400.00 + set of cups.

If you buy these cheap pieces of crap - spend six months with them- and then buy a good set of the fox/dew design it makes sense.

If Penguin was smart they would have marketed the item this way.

Calling them perhaps "Paul Fox dew practice cups" Smile
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Bill Palmer
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That would be brilliant. Then Jake could sue Penguin for using the trademark he owns.

It doesn't make any sense to practice with a set of these plastic cups, when you can get a decent set of Morrissey cups for just about twice the price. At least, they would feel more like cups.
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Mr. Muggle
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Quote:
On 2006-12-02 13:13, cinemagician wrote:
Here's the deal. I would like to perform the cups and balls with a good paul fox/ danny dew set. But I'm not going to practice with a $400.00 + set of cups.


Why? I use mine all the time and most show very little to no wear. Besides, there is a huge difference between one set of cups and the next; especially if you have the Sherwoods. I use different cups and fumble slightly when I'm not used to the exact feel of one set of cups compared to another.
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Bill Palmer
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The savvy cups and balls worker generally will find one set more suitable for his/her use. Those are the ones he/she will practice with. One big advantage of the Sherwood cups is that they feel very much the same from one set to another. The copper ones feel very much like the silver ones, etc.

It really doesn't matter much what set of cups you work with, if it fits your routine and your type of work. You simply should work with the same set as much of the time as possible.

Some sets of cups have inherent advantages over the others. For example, the Monti Cups, the Paul Fox Cups, the Phoenix II and the Sherwood cups are all capable of doing the three ball display on the bottoms of the cups, if you use the right balls. This is more difficult with short-skirted cups, such as the Charlie Miller cups.

You can do the three ball display with the PFF cups, but you need to be careful of knocking the cups around. A lightweight cup is very unforgiving.

However, if you don't do the three ball display, then the point is moot.

If you plan to do a street act, a walkaround act and a standup act, you should practice the routine with the set of cups that is in the middle of the size range first. Then work on the other two. Then in your daily practice regimen, you should do the routine with each set of cups to keep your chops in shape.
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Mad Jake
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Practicing with plastic then switching over to copper, well you have to practice all over again. that's like practicing for a NASCAR race in a Chevette then getting behind the wheel of a race car.

It's the same way with wood turning, you don't practice with cheap tools, then use precision, you're right back to square one.

Since RNT II is no longer manufacturing the Paul Fox Type II cup, the only resource will either be Ebay, and most will probally not go cheap anymore or Penquins version. While a beginner will not notice anything wrong with the cups they will not be consistant, never have from my experience. Also the copper that China is using for the MM sets are copper and about 60% alloy, which means over time most likely the cups will crack and develop serious pitting.

If you're going to do the cups & balls, do it right the first time if you're sure it's for you, doesn't matter if it's RNT II, Sherwood, Riser etc. Get the right tools for the job.
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Pete Biro
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Right Jake m'man... however, Mike Skinner and Bruce Cervon (and others) have done wonderful routines with regular, ungimmicked coffee cups. Ramsay with paper ice cream cups.

It's all in what you want the routine to look like and how you present it.
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Mad Jake
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Pete, you're absolutely right. I used to do a routine at our Starbucks with their coffee cups and napkins when I would frequent during the summer.
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Ron Giesecke
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Quite frankly, I've wondered for years why no one broached this market in aluminum, (although I did see a set on Ebay that looked remarkably like these, and I was outbid on those).

So I went with the brass "Sisti" cups. When I tired of them, I bought a set of Squatties from Jon Schweid (third run, way before he changed the guard).

Believe it or not. Somebody just gave me a mint set of Paul Fox cups--I mean they've still got tissue paper separating them--including the bag with the "PF" logo and everything.

Still, I'm getting a set of these so that my girls will not be so inclined to want to use mine, when they see me using mine,
Bill Palmer
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Those would be the RnT II Paul Fox cups -- and they are excellent cups. In the future, when the smoke clears and the market becomes what it should be, those cups will be rarities.

There were a few aluminum Paul Fox sets spun by Rings and Things as prototypes. Tim Star redesigned the chuck for these. Danny didn't like them, but Tim continued to make them in brass, copper and aluminum.
"The Swatter"

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rikbrooks
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I'll tell you what, some of the finest cups that I own are RNT II cups. The moment that I held one in my hand I thought, (sigh) "perfection". The cups are smaller than I normally use - they are meant to be small. Sorry Jake, but I tossed those tiny balls that came with it. My gosh, I have big Texan hands and none of my sleights worked with that tiny thing, Even the pinkie palm. I use 3/4 inch balls.

No, you can't fit three on top but I don't do that anyway.

Penguin, MM, anybody can build any cheap cups that they want. A true fan of the trick will outgrow those cups quickly and will never trust Penguin again. As for me, It's my RNT II cups (wish I could remember which I have) or my Johnsons.

My Danny Dew/Paul Fox cups are now in a sealed vacuum case that I had a plastic shop make. When Bill told me what I have and the fact that they were bequeathed to me by my grandfather, no human hands will ever again touch them.
walid ahumada
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Cups should be made to be used........only my opinion
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