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Mad Jake
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The cups that Ron has are actual Paul Fox/DD cups, these were spun from a set of oringal chucks that were given to RNT II. We were blessed with actual tooling for the Paul Fox Type 1, 2 and the Chick cups. Several Type 1's were made and they were put away, none have been circulated. 7 sets of DD Type 2 cups were spun, all are accounted for and for all intents and purposes are actuall DD cups as the orignal bead rollers and tooling block was used. The 7 sets in circulation include 2 here, 1 to Ron, 1 to each of my children and 1 to SBL. All 7 sets were made from Copper, no brass were made. We made a few sets of chick cups in both brass and copper and several in bronze. These were turned from the Chick cup tooling but the cups were cut 1/16th shorter than the orignals to differentiate them from older cups. While I figured that would be good enough, I was wrong as this weekend I recieved a set of copper chick cups and one of the cups is the same size as ours, only 1 though LOL. All tooling was shipped outside the US, this avoids any confusion now that MM is making an 99.5% replica of the DD/PF cup. I'm staying out of that **** storm that's brewing.

The only cups that we will continue to make through 2007 are the Paul Fox Mini cups and the new releases will be combo sets.

There will be several release of cups through out 2007, but this will be for contracted clients. Move along, nothing else to see Smile

Ron, work those Paul Fox cups! They were never meant to stay shiney and new forever Smile

Bill thanks for all your research you have done on cups and shared with us, I don't think we thank you enough for your time, energy and knowledge. Thanks too for your friendship.

A big thanks to everyone who have had so many nice things to say about the products and the company, besides everyone the works here, without our customers and friends we wouldn't have made it this far. Without the insperation provided by SBL , I probally would have given up.

Rick, don't ever, I mean ever tell me I have small balls, you know better than that Smile

Cups are meant to be worked, while they do look nice on the shelf, they will tell more of a story in the future with each and every ding, dent or scratch you put in them. I have a set of Danny Dew cups that Gazzo gave me as a gift a few years back, each dent and ding on the cups that were very distinguised had a story, and only Gazzo could tell it in the Gazzo style he does.


A warm, blessed holiday season to all!

~Mad Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Ron Giesecke
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BTW, I will be selling my brass Sisti cups, mainly because I have no intention of using them again, but also to help finance the purchase of a Taylor acoustic guitar purchase sometime in the next few months.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-12-04 21:32, walid ahumada wrote:
Cups should be made to be used........only my opinion


If you are referring to Rick's PF/DD cups, then you are way off base, because you don't know the history of those cups. His grandfather did shows for the servicemen. He was in the middle of a stage performance, when they went under attack. The cups survived the attack with only minor damage. But they are war souvenirs, basically.

Rick's grandfather was Howard Brooks, who was a very popular performer, but was not well known outside of his market. He was mentioned in The New Phoenix. One writer said "Howard Brooks walks into town with a caseful of props and leaves with a suitcase full of money!"

These are the kind of cups that you put on a shelf for your kids to look at, and you use them to preserve the memory of their great grandfather.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
rikbrooks
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Thanks Bill. I used the cups for a while then they turned this firey red color that is so beautiful and rich and deep that I had to stop it and preserve these.
Ron Giesecke
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Quote:
On 2006-12-05 00:25, Ron Giesecke wrote:
BTW, I will be selling my brass Sisti cups, mainly because I have no intention of using them again, but also to help finance the purchase of a Taylor acoustic guitar purchase sometime in the next few months.


Never mind the fact that this discussion causes redundant writing errors as well . . .
Mitch Schneiter
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West Linn, Oregon
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Quote:
On 2006-12-04 23:20, Mad Jake wrote:
The only cups that we will continue to make through 2007 are the Paul Fox Mini cups and the new releases will be combo sets.


PF Mini combo cup sets! Jake, you really make it hard for me to keep to my "no more cups" pledge.
Bill Palmer
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I can't wait for those! Guess I'll have to.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Ron Giesecke
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[quote]On 2006-12-05 13:37, Mitch Schneiter wrote:
Quote:
PF Mini combo cup sets! Jake, you really make it hard for me to keep to my "no more cups" pledge.


Yeah, Jake's definitely redeifining the parameters of sobriety for many of us.
Bill Palmer
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Absolutely true.

See the following:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......5&88
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mad Jake
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Mmmmm big truck, with lots of metal pulled in the driveway this morning at 5am, metal good, lots of Titanium Smile

What in the hell am I going to do with 1700 lbs of Titanium? Smile
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
rudess
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Titanium.
Jake,you are killing me.
Mad Jake
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Smile @ Rudess , well here is something to ponder over and we all this morning just decided we'd announce it. Jan 2007 we'll be releasing our "MINI PENGUIN" CUPS. The project was called the "Chilly Willy Project" We have created a set of mini cups in black derlin and glass beaded them to a soft finish, they look like little penquins. To protect the glass bead finish we will be putting 2 coats of light clear coat MagicPoxy III on them. These lil' buggers are cute and will be perfect for table hopping and strolling magicians.
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Ron Giesecke
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Man oh man . . .
Andy the cardician
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Jake,

that is a fantastic idea . .
I believe that you will provide a video instruction as well . . . .


Andy
Cards never lie
Howard Coberly
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aldo Colombini win FISM with a cheesy-looking set of plastic cups and a great routine?????
"Our town used to be more fortunate...not a single winter passed without the visit of some star.
There used to be famous actors and singers, while today, God only knows! Nobody visits except magicians and organ-grinders. No esthetic satisfaction."
Bill Palmer
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Performing for FISM is to performing for a real audience as running in the New York Marathon is to running for your life.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Howard Coberly
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Hi Bill,

So you're saying that if Aldo were to perform this routine with the same cups for an audience of laymen, it would not play well?? I have to disagree. If this were the case, then by implication, you are saying that any Cups and Balls worker who uses plastic cups for his/her routine (Ammar, Gertner, Gazzo) will not get as good a response as they would if they were using a $900 set of Sherwood cups.

Does this theory also carry over to card magic?? I've seen Shoot Ogawa perform an entire show with those cheesy Chinese-made playing cards, and I would be willing to bet that had he used Bikes, the audience would have appreciated it all the same.

Granted, the heavy cups are prettier and will give your performance a more sophisticated look, but I can in no way agree that they will make your audience (magicians or laymen) appreciate a great routine any more.

Many of the pros, including Gazzo and Ammar, have said that they have performed their routines with Styrofoam cups. I would be willing to bet that they got great reactions with these performances because the routines make the trick, not the cups.

I also have to say that it's a bit irresponsible for the veteran performers to condemn the plastic cups over the expensive sets, which will give the younger, less experienced magicians the impression that they have to use the more expensive cups in order to entertain their audiences.

Daniel Cros has been performing the Cups regularly for over 30 years with 3 plastic Pepsi cups. I'm sure that if he thought he would get a tremendously better reaction with the expensive metal cups, being the consummate showman that he is, he would switch in order to give his audiences the best performance possible.

I switched to Penguin metal cups several years ago from the standard cups, and I will say that they feel better, but I don't agree that they make the routine any better in the eyes of the lay audience.

I have seen several pros at the bar at the Magic Castle doing the Shell Game with the standard plastic shells. Again, by the prevailing logic on this thread, these magicians would get a better response if they switched to the $100 gold-plated heavy shells. Then, why haven't they??? Because as all the seasoned pros on this forum are always saying, it's the skill and ability and routining of the trick that makes it play well or badly, not how pretty or how heavy the props are.

This is an outlook perpetuated by hardcore collectors and those performers who just like the feel of the cups. And there is nothing wrong with that outlook, but I think it's an incredibly far leap to the conclusion that if you use heavier, bigger, more expensive cups, your audience will enjoy the routine more.

Last month, I saw John Carney in the CU room at the Magic Castle. He closed his set with a Chop Cup style routine using a plastic drinking glass wrapped up in a piece of newspaper and a small fruit. He ended by producing a glass fishbowl full of water with a fish in it from under the paper where the glass had been before. He used pretty much the standard Chop Cup/Cups and Balls moves and received a collective gasp after the finale. I don't believe that, had he been using a $900 gold-plated glass wrapped in a $300 silk, the audience reaction would have been any different.

I have seen many magicians, including Darwin Ortiz and Tommy Wonder, do the Card to Box routine using a simple little box instead of one of those very expensive gaffed boxes that are available out there. Obviously, they know that their routines are so well constructed that they could make that card come out a rusty Band-Aid box, and it wouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't be any stronger were they to use the prettier box.

We won't even get into the argument about how laymen might believe those fancy cups are gaffed somehow (as I have heard people say while milling around the Castle after a show wherein the performer did the Cups).

I think the evidence is strongly against those who believe that the prettier/heavier cups make the routine better or more appreciated by the lay audience.
"Our town used to be more fortunate...not a single winter passed without the visit of some star.
There used to be famous actors and singers, while today, God only knows! Nobody visits except magicians and organ-grinders. No esthetic satisfaction."
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2007-02-18 15:54, Howard Coberly wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aldo Colombini win FISM with a cheesy-looking set of plastic cups and a great routine?????


If your point is that one can do a great routine with a cheap set of cups and still be entertaining, I think you will be hard-pressed to find someone at the Café who will disagree with you.

There are any number of reasons people may prefer to invest in expensive cups; performance style/persona, etc.... I think most magicians prefer more expensive cups to the cheaper cups, not because they are more expensive, but because they provide more flexibility due to their construction, material used, and so on.

Some people just like performing with beautiful works of art. I was just able to purchase a set of gold-plated, sterling silver Sherwood Cups. They were sent to my office address. When I opened the box, my co-workers were almost in awe at how beautiful they were. Eye candy doesn't make the performance, as I am sure you know, but it can bring quite a bit to the table.

It would be interesting to take a poll of professional magicians who use the C&B regularly, and see what kind of cups they use.

Mark
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Mad Jake
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 21:19, Chessmann wrote:
It would be interesting to take a poll of professional magicians who use the C&B regularly, and see what kind of cups they use.

Mark


Paul Fox, Sherwood Silver Engraved, SBL Coppers, and Jim Riser's latest greatest creations of Mini Copper Cups.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
cfrye
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I warm up with a set of Gazzo cups and perform with Animal cups. It's the principle of a baseball player swinging two bats before he goes to the plate. Except, I swing three bats. Smile



Curt
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