I have just returned from 4 days in Las Vegas to discover that there are several threads out there discussing "packs small, plays big", how many trips various children's entertainers make to the car to set up their show, do you have to have big colourful tricks to help sell a show, etc. Just for the record, as far as my own show goes, I walk right in and am ready to go!! Why? Because I have an entertaining show that does not revolve around big, showy props. However, the show itself is colourful, very funny, and plays enormous, which for me is the criterion. But that is me........and each to their own!

This topic has got me thinking as a performer and small time dealer of original magic props. I am considering selling a complete one-hour children's show in a box. You would be provided with a series of original tricks and routines, many from my existing show, so they have been tried and tested for many years. You would receive all the tricks and routines, a DVD, the display box which goes straight onto a jumping stool (a good European one that goes twice as high as the American equivalent!) The stool itself fits in the box, so all you do is walk in the house with one box, and you are ready to go. I am curious as to what others think of this idea.
I foresee one comment might be that everyone who buys one will end up do the same show. NOT TRUE!!! What makes a show good is not just the tricks, but the way they are presented. That is where the originality comes in. Also, remember, only people who purchase the entire box from me will be doing the tricks. Many of us do standard mass-marketed dealer tricks in our shows anyway, so if this really takes off in a big way and magicians all over the world end up doing the same show, so what? The performances will all be different, and in most cases, so will the children!! I welcome your thoughts on this.

Roger, for the newbie starting out, there is certainly some merit in a "Prepackaged" show that may save a lot of time, money, and frustration. (Quick show of hands, please, all of us that have drawers of hyped "schlock" magic that we wish we had never bought). Some may argue that trying to take the "quick" road may actually stunt the learning process and creativity of aspiring upcoming magicians.

Another potential stumbling block maybe the initial price. I would imagine that all the props you are envisioning might come with a price that may cause heart palpitations in some aspiring newbies.

Then, there is suitability for character issues. Trust me, you do not want a jumping stool anywhere near my act.

As with all "ideas", Roger, I am sure that this one will galvanize the vocal camps quickly, and the debate will rage immanently.

Some people are not fans of "live and let live" or "Take the best and leave the rest."

Yours, Aye

Well, Roger. You know I do respect you and your shows. I respect your creativity and what you have added to the Café. With that said, my vote would simply have to be for the ridiculous instead of the genius. Nothing personal here, and I hope this is not taken as a personal attack.

My philosophy has always been to promote creativity in magic and to get magicians to think outside of the box and outside of the norm. Too many magicians want and will take the easy way out anytime they are given the chance to. This does nothing to grow our artform. It creates magic clones and people performing the same thing because it is easy for them to do so.

Will you sell a lot of these if you make it up? No doubt in my mind that the answer would be YES. You will sell a lot of them because magicians tend to be lazy. They just are. If a magician can buy an effect that comes with patter, and all they have to do is learn it and do it, then chances are a majority of the people will flock to it. If you provide for them an entire show with your own creative ideas for patter and presentation, then, yes, they will surely buy it. But, they will perform it exactly as has been shown to them. After all, that takes no effort to do for them.

The problem (as I see it) is in your thinking that once these folks buy your show in a box, they will start to think creatively with it and do something unique. In my opinion, I just do not see that happening. Or at least at the level we would hope it would.

It gets back to the concept of magicians being lazy in general. A majority of them will buy it simply because it is the easy way out for them. "Oh, here is an entire show I can pay for, learn to do, and not even have to think about. I do not have to spend any effort being creative or putting any thought into it. I can buy it, learn it, and do it."

I just feel this approach does nothing to make magicians think for themselves or get them thinking in creative terms. You know as well as I do that being creative takes time and takes effort and is not easy. It requires diligence that I know you have. I have seen your show clips, and what you create and perform is creative and unique to you and your character on stage. You are a creative thinker, and I would hope that others would start to, or want to learn to, think in those creative terms.

For me, instead of giving magicians a show already done for them, I would give them a box or system that teaches them how to be a creative thinker. Give them the tools where they can start to learn to think on their own, and start to teach them how to find their character and their own unique style. Teach them and give them the proper tools to get them creating their own shows in a very unique way that is different from all the rest.

I know this is just my own opinion, and it is not meant in any way to be an attack on anyone. It simply is my strong opinion and thoughts and nothing more than that. I just have seen so many magicians taking the easy way out just because they can and because folks are willing to give it to them.

For me, personally, I would much rather find ways to get magicians to think in different ways. This expands our artform.

OK, I am coming off of my soapbox. hehe Thanks for letting me rant.

My 2 cents worth.

Kyle

Jim Gerrish has been threatening to encase many of his routined shows in print for a long time now, and unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you view it), he always manages to get sidetracked with another project (like his Hardboard and Duct Tape Books on my site). Still, you can see he has been thinking about this (ever since I have known him, it seems) from the outlines he worked up in 2003:
http://www.magicnook.com/birthdayparty/birthdayshowsTOC.htm

That's a link to my site, but the book described there was never put on sale, is not for sale now, and may have to be published posthumously the way things are going.

Anyway, to relate this to Roger's post, I say DO IT. Put together your magic box, make up a few of them, and see what happens. But especially make the DVD and be prepared to sell it separately, OR write it up as a book; if the boxes don't sell well, you can always continue with the book. The DVD or the book version will always contain the "essence" of "Jolly Roger" and is an important part of your "legacy" to the magicians of the future. At least, that's what I always keep telling Gerrish, not that he listens to me anymore.

It is worth a try. I do agree with a DVD only, as well. No offense, but I personally would not purchase the whole kit. You are a creative and successful performer, so do not take it personal. I would buy a DVD. (second hand )

Mail order bride comes to mind. No offense, but I wouldn't want anything to do with someone else's stuff. It might be good for some?

Dear Lord, now we'll have more hacks out there ruining it for the regular working professional!
What happens, Roger, if someone in your area buys one of your "show in a box" and tries to, well, by "jollier than thou"?
Love your products and think very highly of you, JR, but please don't do this. It would be like Coca Cola and New Coke all over again...."New Coke - cheap crap in a familiar can"...only the cheap crap will be the hack trying to pull off your great tricks without your hard earned expertise, theatrical training, and general know-how of your business.
As far as your legacy, be inspirational, but don't sell off your act. After the hacks trash it, it won't be regarded as a legacy any more.
Is a steak still a steak after it's been ground and torn to shreds to make a cheap ball park frank?
Your legacy lies within your inner knowledge of your craft and business practices. Write a book about your life, experiences, and your knowledge. I'd be first in line to buy that!
Also, if you DO go the route of "JR in a box", make sure that you use it as an outfit to train others to be like you. Then, run an agency that sends "little Jolly Rogers" all over, so you're not doing one party, your doing 5 every afternoon.
The performers under you get a percentage of the profits, you keep the performance rights, and you keep the performers in line to ensure quality control.
No hacks, only good, solid "Jolly Roger"-ing.
I say this out of high respect for you and our craft, and it comes from the heart.
Best Always, JR, you deserve no less,
Chris

There are plenty of hacks out there now that go down to the magic shop with a couple hundred dollars and buy a kid show, then go out and call themselves professionals. TONS of them, as a matter of fact.

There are also hacks that have been working for 20 years and have never been any good. Too much ego and not enough humility to learn anything new. Personally, I don't think a kit will change the number of hacks.

There are also guys who just go out and buy a kid show video, and buy every trick that is on that, and call it a show. Ahh, magic. One of the only professions in the world where the guy with two weeks in and having seen one T.V. special call themselves experts having never done a show.

Hey, Roger, where can I get the good jump stool? I use mine in every show, and I would LOVE one that was just a bit taller and a lot better made.

Best,

Dan-

Roger,
The post seems to be splitting down the middle as to which way to go... but there is a common thread appearing.

"Show in a Box" may provide the props and patter, but the "workers" know that the best comes from the "Persona and Performance". Maybe you should include a copy of Seriously Silly, Strong Magic, 3 Red Skelton DVDs, 2 Abbott and Costellos, and a Laurel and Hardy for good measure. Round it out with some "Red Green and Mr. Bean"

The exact titles do not have to be cast in stone, but I think you get the idea. How to be a Showman, and in particular, how to do it for Kids is not an easy task.


This post is not meant to be a "Suck Eggs" for all those guys and gals who are doing it...but more of a direction pointer for those learning it.

Learning to be funny should be fun in itself. What kids find funny is so different than adults. One of the most outrageous reactions I got all year was doing a kids party at a restaurant. They were doing their menus so the food could be served after the show, and I asked who was ordering the "Pygmy Toes" for the Pirate. I was not prepared for the reactions... It is now in my show...

Dan,
As usual, you're completely right on this. There will always be the hacks out there. I suppose a kit won't help change it (Veni, vedi, vici, Jr.! Go forth and conquer!)...maybe identify it, though!
"We have now tagged these wild hacks with identical shows so we may keep track of their progress in the wild....next, on Wild Magicians, we'll watch the strange phenomena of "brick and mortar" magic shops. Can we save them from extinction?"

I'm also interested in the stool, JR.....I know I could get a lot more mileage out of it than the one I currently have!

Sea Dawg, SPOT ON! Also, include with the kits about 4 years of acting school and classical stage training.....about $40,000 worth....then mentoring with a professional clown and outdoor fair and festival theater....

Best,
Chris

Hasn't this already been done by someone? I could have sworn there already was a "show in a box" out there. Maybe not for kids, I'm not sure. If there is, maybe you could research and find out how well it sold.

I, personally, want nothing to do with a prepackaged show. I can't see where any established performer would, unless he felt his current show was awful and he wanted to take a new direction. Still, rather than buy a whole show, I would think rebuilding a routine at a time would be easy and preferential for a performer with some experience.

Regan

Frankly, this is a good idea. Annemann tried it back in the 30s. He produced a series of venue oriented scripts/acts. He outlined the props needed, scripted the presentation, and set the format (sequence of tricks).

Too many individuals have an idea of how to present an off-the-shelf trick. They don’t have any idea of how to structure a show to maximize its entertainment value. I have seen literately hundreds of magicians (family/kid show performers) who do standard off-the-shelf tricks. I have even seen some of them do them well. Heck, some even modify the presentation to fit their own personality and style. However, these are rare.

Go to the family and kid show oriented magic conventions, and you will meet dozens of individuals that are buying a Patrick Smith routine (David Ginn, pick a name) and will perform it, word for word, as they saw it performed. They buy tried and tested magic tricks, props, and ideas.

Sometimes, it is not simply a “lazy magician” syndrome at work here. Often, it is a person that simply lives in an area where in he/she works in a near vacuum and is learning by trial and error. Often, they have day-time jobs that take them away from the hours they need to do the hard work of being totally original and creative. Many work hard to try to get good (entertaining, efficient, etc., etc.), and they want to give a good (entertaining) show for good value.

Now, if this person could buy a tried, tested, and workable show and improve their performances, then we all benefit. They burn fewer bridges for other working stiffs.

I have been in over a dozen plays in my life. Most were considered “classics”. None were original works. Yet, my director’s interpretation of the work, and my interpretation of the character I played (even going from a memorized script) made that play unique. I see the same thing at work here.

Go for it! I suspect that the market will be limited (you won’t get rich), and as a result, the performers of your show in a box will probably not ever run into each other.

Well, I can't help feeling a bit bad for JR at this point. I know he was just brainstorming, after all....his heart's in the right place!
JR, take note of the fact you've got us stirred up. This is that wonderful "attention" marketing cue...(PT...I mean JR...I've called Shirley MacLaine with the exciting news that she finally has proof of past lives.)

Harry, good point. We all have to start somewhere, and perhaps there would be fewer bridges burned with clients. Beginners with good intentions are one thing, hacks who don't care and don't listen to their "teachers" are another.
I still think he'd have a bestseller if he'd simply write a book about his experiences and his performance psychology!
"This way to the Egress, folks..."
Chris

ROFLMBO!

ROGER, TAKE NOTE! This could work itself into being a new reality show.

Get a price on small GPS tracking systems, and find a way to put them into buttons that say, "Tipping is not just a city in China!"

Chris,
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that, and your comment was brilliant!

Best,

Dan-

You may have better response on an educational show?

I have to agree with the others....this might be a good idea, but at the same time, it is a really bad idea.

Like Kyle said, the idea is to get people to think "outside of the box". Look at what Dave Dee did many years ago. He released several shows in a box for the educational market that were not well thought out. He even admitted at one time that he only performed the shows a few times before he started selling the rights to others. No disrespect to Dave or others, but the problem with these "boxed" products is that they create an easy way for anyone to call themselves an entertainer. Before you know it, everyone is doing it, and sooner or later someone is going to claim that they designed YOUR show.

Also, remember that an amateur (someone with little or no experience) is going to buy the product, start performing it for a low price, and take the market value of the other performers way down. It happens all the time!

This is just my 2 cents worth!

Now...I love the idea of walking in to an area and being ready to go. This is a concept that I am currently working with for all of my shows. I do not have it down yet, but hope to very soon.

Hi Regan:

You may be thinking of the late Brian Flora. He sold his basic kid show for years, and called it "Kid Show in a Box."

Ron

Brian Flora, Dave Dee, Rick Allen, CJ Johnson, Dave Risley, and Barry Mitchell are just some of the people who have sold a "show in a box" in the past. Some of them even with the props.

- Donald

Thank you all for your wonderful input on this. I am almost decided which way I am going, but I need to make one thing clear. What I am suggesting bears no relation to what Dave Dee and others may have done. I am talking about a one hour children's show of totally original magic, all of my own creation. This is not stuff which has ever been sold by dealers, and it has been audience tested hundreds of times over the past 40 years. The entire show fits in a beautiful cube shape box with a single handle on the top, and this box is placed on the jumping stool. I will shortly post a link to the European jumping stool, if I can find it. However, the stool that would come with the kit will be made in my workshop.

My decision will be announced in the next 24 hours, so I would be grateful for further input before any finality. Once again, thank you for some superb posts above!

Have you though about selling this 'show in a box' with the rights to a specific geographic area? That way you'll remove the possibility of having more than one person in each area doing the same show. That kind of thing has also been offered in the past by Dave Dee, Chris Egelston, and others. Obviously, it means the price goes up...

Best regards,
Mike