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JackScratch
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The thing that I still think is wrong with this conversation (my website not withstanding) is that people aren't familiar with these things, but no name is going to change that fact. If a person can't make an educated guess at what a "Cut and Restored Rope" is, based on the name, what name is it that you guys think will allow them to be able to? What combination of words, that is not a sentance, do you believe will do the job better than the ones we use? Other than a full discription, which I would never rule out anyway, what do you call "Strolling Magic" that you think does the job better than "Strolling Magic". Realy, where are we going with this?
Dannydoyle
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Jack you do make a valid point. Over and over and over again.

Yea "cut and restored rope" is indeed an industry term. As was indicated they "knew what was being said but Jonathan had to modify copy". Which I feel by the way is a no no.

But the problem with strolling magic is that if someone has never been in a situation where "strolling magic" is done, then perhaps they do not get it. I dare say that many people are supprised that you can walk arround and do magic tricks. Often you get a responce like "oh like David Blaine", as much as such a responce hurts.

As for your call to find another word or phrase? Not easy. Close up works for me. THAT IS ME. Not everyone. Your right even THAT requires explination for some.

So to be so intractible on your position seems not necessary. Your right to find a phrase that explains it and is truley "self explanitory" is a tough mountian to climb.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
icentertainment
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Hmmm deja vu

It's not easy ---but that's not a reason for not trying.

It's a wonder some of you guys even learned magic in the first place with your attitude.



"EEEER It's not easy so lets just give up right now"


this attitude is unbecoming of a magician
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2006-12-06 21:04, icentertainment wrote:
Hmmm deja vu

It's not easy ---but that's not a reason for not trying.

It's a wonder some of you guys even learned magic in the first place with your attitude.

"Not Easy"? It's pointless. The reason that they don't know what you are talking about, hasd nothing to do with the words you are using. It has to do with the customers familiarity with out industry. No combination of words is going to change that. A full explanation will change that. Meanwhile, "Strolling Magic" as a name, does just fine.



"EEEER It's not easy so lets just give up right now"


this attitude is unbecoming of a magician
icentertainment
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Thanks for your input.

Posted: Dec 7, 2006 9:50am
I don't think you should modify your testimonials, but that is not this topic.
JackScratch
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No idea how that happened. Sorry.
itshim
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I either call it 'close-up magic' or 'mix and mingle magic' I don't differentiate my tricks as to whether they are sat at a table or not nor work from any sort of base so both terms apply. I rarely have anybody ask for an explanation for either term.

Nigel
I knew a man who kept saying "pliers, pincers, scissors". He was speaking in tongs.

www.itshim.co.uk
magic4u02
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I think the important thing is that no matter what you may call it, you need to educate your client or prospect in making sure they know exactly what is expected of you and what you are offering to deliver to them.

It comes down to simply ASKING the client what their needs are for the event and then answering back with how your magic can directly address those needs that they have. If you explain it to them in plain English and in a way that solves the problem at hand, there should be no reason why you would have any problem at a gig.

Another thing I do is after I talk with my client, I make sure that my contract also spells it out in writing. It does not just simply say strolling magic or close-up magic or walk-around. It really states clearly exactly what it is that I am physically doing for them. where I am doing it and how the magic will impact and meet their needs. By writing it out in this fashion on the contract, there is no guess work for either party as it is explained clearly.

Kyle
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itshim
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Magic4u02,

If you have that sort of relationship with an agent then you are doing well. I normally find that most of the agencies that I deal with write the smallest amount they can as to what sort of entertainment they are providing. I regularly have to ask the client what they are expecting when I get to the venue. If this were just one agent I could train him but I work with lots.

Nigel
I knew a man who kept saying "pliers, pincers, scissors". He was speaking in tongs.

www.itshim.co.uk
JackScratch
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What you are talking about should be covered in your promotional material.
itshim
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If only life worked that way!

I don't only do one or two things. I am a juggler, close-up magician, balloon modeller, fire-eater, stilt-walker etc. etc. For each of these skills I can offer different sorts of routines lasting between 2 minutes and an hour as well as mix and mingle entertainment for several hours and normally exhibiting multi-skills. If I get a call from the booker directly, then I can quickly ascertain what they want and deliver it to them. If I go through an agent they can tell me one thing and I can later find out that the client wanted something completely different. I try to do what the client wants (often when the client isn't that clear what they want) to do this I talk to the client as soon as I arrive at a venue (often 90 mins or more before I perform). Regularly the client hasn't seen my promotional material and has been sold an act by the agent through the glibness of his talk. My aim is to meet or exceed the clients expectations.

Nigel
I knew a man who kept saying "pliers, pincers, scissors". He was speaking in tongs.

www.itshim.co.uk
icentertainment
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For agents

Make it easy on them.

You can try to battle with them but they have so many entertainers they essentially want your act in a nutshell

ie David does this ......

Bang- they don't want to give the client a paragraph of info., they want to give options and they want to make their cut ASAP and move onto the next enquiry.

So the question of what to call your act, close up or strolling or whatever is very important when dealing with Agents (low end agents anyway)
magic4u02
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Hi Nigel,

Thanks so much for taking the time to post your thoughts here. I greatly appreciate hearing and reading them. thank you my friend. Actually I do work with a lot of agencies but my biggest agency is simply myself and marketing myself effectively.

However, even if I am working with an agency, I will always add an addendum to their contract or will ask them if they would be willing to use mine. Most do not have a problem with it. The reason being is that as much as I am representing them, they in turn are representing me by their actions and what they do. I always tell the agencies I work for that my goal is to provide 1005 quality solutions for their clients. In order to do so, it is very important that the client know exactly what they should expect from me.

Most agencies love the fact that I am that upfront with them and willing to work with them. They want this information as they know I am there to make sure their client gets the best treatment possible with minimal surprises happening.

Your quote, "If I go through an agent they can tell me one thing and I can later find out that the client wanted something completely different." I can relate to this as I feel it is something many find themselves in a lot and you would not be the first.

A long time ago I to felt this way until I realized I should never ever have to find myself in that situation at all even if it is going through an agency. what I started to realize was that I am not at their mercy nor am I really their employee. I am a contractor who is "partnering' with them. We both should also have the exact same goal in mind. That goal should be to deliver the best quality solutions possible for the client. if this is the case, then the agency should be willing to answer all of my questions upfront no matter how detailed they may be.

they should be willing to work with me to make sure the client and I are both on the same page as to what is expected. I never just take a call from an agency and just go and do it any more. I take the time to ack the right questions and obtain the right information ahead of time. I find this way there are less surprises and the agency respects me in the long run because of the reactions and positive feedback they receive after the event is over. Just food for thought.

Also, I make sure that the agency uses my promotional materials. the reason is that I am also a graphic designer by trade and nobody knows my business and can sell that through my materials better then me. afterall it is my materials that really help brand me in the eyes of the client.

The only difference when handing any materials to the agency to use, is that you need to have your contact information taken off and have the agencies information placed in. This is easy enough for me to do and I find the agencies are very happy that I am providing this to them. I solve their problem and in return it helps me solve mine.

Kyle
Kyle Peron

http://www.kylekellymagic.com

Entertainers Product Site

http://kpmagicproducts.com

Join Our Facebook Fan Page at

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