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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » From Soup to Nuts » » Jolly Roger will not allow you to buy his products! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Profile of Starrpower
On 2006-12-03 01:36, jolly roger wrote:
"I don't think it matters what any magician thinks but the guy selling the product."

Starrpower, I am a little confused by your statement.

Well, what I meant was, if you (the creator and seller) feel the need to audition magicians before agreeing to sell them a product, do so. Who cares what the magicians think? If you sell nothing due to no "auditions," it's a pretty good indication that it's a flawed process. If you sell a few but they do a great job with it, maybe your scheme can be deemed a success. If you get a bunch of hack performances, you have a decision to make.

Personally, for all the reasons already posted, I wouldn't go through such a process. But you may think I'm all wet. Hence my statement, "I don't think it matters what any magician thinks." If it's YOUR products, and YOUR process, YOUR opinion is the only one that counts on this one.
Potty the Pirate
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Profile of Potty the Pirate
Roger, you're a great stimulus here at the Magic Café, you have some good products, and you don't take yourself to seriously. On the other hand, you sometimes manage to phrase things in a slightly self-orineted and contoversial way; your books, if you have them, aren't regarded as "Bibles" of kids entertainment like "Kidbiz" and Ginn's other books. And you set yourself up for a ribbing, so don't worry or be upset when folks offer criticism.
What you exude, Roger, is the excitement of a five-year old, and good on ya mate, if you can still behave like that at your age (58 I belive you admitted?)
Through all of the banter, I think those of us who are looking to stimulate our grey matter, somehow amplify the particular train of childish thought that we require to be good at entertaining kids.
As a dealer, I think you should worry far less about the possibility that some folks might not use your products as well as they might. I think it would be more practical and worthy, to take a personal interest in your customers, and keep track of how they are using your props, perhaps a follow-up call a few weeks down the line. You could listen to how they are using the routine, then make a couple of suggestions to improve what they're offering. No dealer has ever done this as far as I know, though probably years ago, that would have been more likely. If someone wants to be a kids' entertainer badly enough, they most likely could do it. It's 10% natural ability, and 90% hard graft, practise, study, and consideration. Why not share what you can, while you can?
John Bowlin
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I was surprised that Ron's comment struck such a nerve with Jolly Roger. In all fairness, few of us here if any ever heard of Jolly Roger before his coming to this forum. Fame is often as much(if not more) luck than talent. Ron's comment was not perceived by me as any sort of a "personal attack" on Jolly Roger. It was just a perception that I tended to agree with.

There are some nationally known entertainers that do not impress me as performers but to me are famous through constant self promotion. If self promotion is a way to fame, Jolly Roger may well be on his way! That was not a dig on how I see you as a performer Jolly Roger, just an observation of your ability to self promote. Smile

Fame is often a by-product of high level insecurity or other other psycho-social issues amongst celebrities and performers. Is Paris Hilton famous(or infamous?) for her beauty, marketing prowess or acting ability? Me thinks not. And if any of you say "because she is a rich Hilton", what's her sisters name?

I read the above posts and wonder whether Jolly Roger more values the smile he puts on the faces of others or to have his name emboldened to the likes of David Ginn. Anyone that is truly "great" or "famous" need not tell so to those that might challenge. Those that are not, yet desire it, see anything less than high praise as a challenge. To the humble, fame means little.
Ron Reid
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Hi Jolly Roger:

My comments weren't meant to be a personal attack on you. I'm sorry if they seemed to be.

I didn't know you were that well known in the U.K. - Again, I apologize.

Ron Reid
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Profile of Magicshore
" I'm sorry son. I just can't let you have a baseball and a bat unless I know you'll be a great baseball player ".

Food for thought

Canvey Card Sharp
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Canvey Island Essex ENGLAND
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Profile of Canvey Card Sharp
I find it hard to believe that Ken Brooke and International Magic share the same post - other than for the historical content.

Both dealers were/are miles apart when it comes to ethics.

Ken Brooke was the greatest dealer and demonstrator in the history of magic. His morals were faultless and to answer a point above, if you didn't like his style of operation then he couldn't give a 'tuppney toss' if you went elsewhere; in fact, he'd prefer that you did.

His range of magic was commercial and made to the highest standards; a fact proven by the many items I now have of his from the 1970's still in excellent condition.

If Ken thought an effect was beyond the capability of the purchaser he simply would rather not sell it than see it murdered. As a 15yo I had to prove I could perform a decent top palm before he sold my Dad a Fred Kaps Card in Wallet (my eagerly awaited Chrsitmas present)! He then spent 20 minutes of his time, unpaid, teaching me aspects of misdirection so that I could perform it even better. To me, the man was God!

Turning to International Magic. Let's just say that a guy that once asked "have you got one of those folding coins that go inside a bottle" led to an immediate sale with no questions asked. I also find it laughable that they carry effects that they cannot even demonstrate, and reccommend books that when queried, don't even know the content! In contrast, EVERY demonstration given by Ken was performed as if he was working at the Savoy Hotel.

If Ken Brooke was still trading, I doubt whether he'd even have an internet site for his Magic Studio. He much preferred teaching you personally to perform an effect well; or with simply a few stamps, would hand write tutorials if you were stuck on a particular part of an effect. His instruction sheets were second to none and provide so many performance tips and humourous patter that they make modern day attempts of written instructions worthy only for keeping the fire going.

How I would love to go back in time to see Ken performing at his Magic Place again.
Barry Allen

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Derek Rutt Creations
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Profile of Derek Rutt Creations
When I was very young I used to go to Davenports Magic shop in Holborn and was befriended by the wonderful man behind the counter......namely the wonderful original Gilly Gilly man Mr Gilly Davenport who helped me so much in deciding what to buy. He knew what was good fo me because we talked for many hours and I used to visit the shop so often he knew my personality. I alo used to go to see Harry Stanley and Ken Brook and many others at that time.
When Supreme came along they did not have a shop but only a warehouse which I once saw in Bideford Devon which was stocked to overflowing and of course it was just a postal ordering service.......but they achieved the good reputation and generally the products were excellent. They also of course would never dream of asking for your particulars etc.
Today with internet selling yes there are some not so good dealers who give wrong descriptions or fake videos the answer I believe is to create trust with your customers by telling the truth in giving accurate descriptions and totally true video clips. The video clips are very important as this allows you to show the customer exactly what he is getting.
There was a thread on another forum which said that they were thinking of buying one of my products......but ....could it do what it said ???..I can understand this feeling as in the past ther have been many who have been duped by the dishonest person.
So I think that to ask my customers for a DVD or what they do in their show is utterly impossible and they would think that I was crazy and buy elsewhere. Also of course who am I to decide what they should is not the same as in a bricks and mortar shop .
Hope this helps. Creation is life
Phil J.
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Profile of Phil J.
On 2006-12-02 14:57, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Later on, I was one of the lucky ones who as a teenager visited the basement at Clerkenwell Road. There was (and still is I believe) a "joke shop" aournd the corner, but the basement was where all the cool magic stuff was. Like Brewer Street, it had a solitary black door, with nothing but the Street Number showing (99 Leather Lane).
The basement studio closed down years ago and everything was moved around the corner into the joke shop. Unfortunately, the shop now attracts a lot more members of the public wanting to buy the latest David Blaine effect.
You were born original... Don't die a copy Smile
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