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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magical Accessories » » Thumb tip for children (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Daniel Ulzen
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Hello!

I plan to buy hundreds of thumb tips for children (smaller size). Does anybody know a dealer who offers those thumb tips for children at a fair price?

Thank you for your help!

Have a GREAT day!

Daniel ;-)
thoughtsexplorer
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Why smaller size?
Maybe you should get a bigger size, so the hundreds of children will really all fit inside... sorry...
thoughtsexplorer
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Honestly... you don't intend to provide 100 children with thumbtips, do you?
throwing out a wonderful device as a giveaway?????
Daniel Ulzen
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Hello thoughtsexplorer!

Please give me more respect. I want to teach the thumb tip to children so that they can do a great magic trick and have fun with it their whole life. And some of them will discover the hobby magic because of my magic course, find new friends this way, get more self esteem and will have a better life this way. I am serious about all these things, I really mean it. How can you write without knowing me and my work "throwing out a wonderful device as a giveaway?????"? You or the existing magicians don´t own the great magic tricks that are there. The children of our world have the right to to learn these tricks too. Of course I give my best to influence them to keep the tricks a secret.

Have a GREAT day!

Daniel ;-)
Andy the cardician
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Daniel,

I think it is a great idea to involve young children right from the start.
How old are the children? If they are very young - five to six - a self working trick might be better.

Andy
Cards never lie
Daniel Ulzen
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Dear Andy,

the children are at least 9/10 years old, mostely 10/11/12/13 years old. Out of my experience it is possible to teach them the thumb tip. And they love this trick.

Have a GREAT day!

Daniel ;-)
thoughtsexplorer
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Quote:
On 2006-12-15 03:05, Daniel Ulzen wrote:
Hello thoughtsexplorer!

Please give me more respect. I want to teach the thumb tip to children so that they can do a great magic trick and have fun with it their whole life. And some of them will discover the hobby magic because of my magic course, find new friends this way, get more self esteem and will have a better life this way. I am serious about all these things, I really mean it. How can you write without knowing me and my work "throwing out a wonderful device as a giveaway?????"? You or the existing magicians don´t own the great magic tricks that are there. The children of our world have the right to to learn these tricks too. Of course I give my best to influence them to keep the tricks a secret.

Have a GREAT day!

Daniel ;-)


whow... strange words!
I have some questions. Honest questions. Questions to think about.

1.) your words: "...so that they can do a great magic trick and have fun with it their whole life...".
Do you think that the given out TTs will grow together with the kids' thumb size, so they can use it for the rest of their life? Is there any logic here?
Or are you just interested to be booked for explaining magic tricks for kids?
(stop! I have read your words "How can you write without knowing me and my work",
it is no accuse, just a question! - so what is your work about?)

2.) your words "... And some of them will discover the hobby magic because of my magic course, find new friends this way, get more self esteem and will have a better life this way...".
Well, if everyone who ownes a TT would never be alone or would find new friends because of that... it would be just great. Pleasure to earth's population.
Maybe they would even be happier getting a cheaply produced copy of the collected Paul Osborne Illusion Systems. That's worth more than just a children-size-TT.
So why not make everyone happy? Even adults could like it - and find new friends. A lot of layman liked the "Masked Magician" stuff, knowing how "magic" is done.

3.) your words " You or the existing magicians don´t own the great magic tricks that are there".
That is sad to read. Really sad.
Either you do not consider yourself as a magician when you talk of "you or the existing magicians" (and here I ask you: who gives you the right to ask for help in this forum then) or it may be even worse. You may think that you belong to the community, without realizing that it is one of our tasks -and burdens- to guard the secrets of magic. Not to reveal them by distributing props.

4.) your words "The children of our world have the right to to learn these tricks too".
Here you may be absolutely right. All of us went through life as kids and some did start their magic career at this stage. Not because someone gave us a TT (do you really believe or expect that more than 90% of your pupils will hang on to our beloved art?). There were other ways. Was there a thumbtip in the magic kit that was given to you by your grandmom when you were 6 years old?
Yes. The kids have the right. But, please also think of our "tasks and burdens", as mentioned before.

5.) your words " Of course I give my best to influence them to keep the tricks a secret".
You expect them to keep the secrets?
They probably will... their teacher is an ideal guide.

Sorry.
Turk
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Quote:
On 2006-12-04 02:37, Daniel Ulzen wrote:
Hello!

I plan to buy hundreds of thumb tips for children (smaller size). Does anybody know a dealer who offers those thumb tips for children at a fair price?

Thank you for your help!

Have a GREAT day!

Daniel ;-)


I'm just flabbergasted that, in a beginning magic class, you would reveal the secret of one of the great utility props of all times and one which is constantly and currently being used by working magicians. GRRR.

I would respectfully suggest and ask you to consider (as an alternative) a deck of Bicycle cards and then teach the kids 3-5 good strong self-working card tricks that they can learn and with which they could have a beginning working repetoire and then be able to practice and perform in front of their friends and families.

Alternatively, or maybe additionally, maybe teach them a few of the beginning rope tricks from such books and provide them with a piece of rope.

And then maybe point them to some of the beginning magic books that they could buy at their magic store (1st choice) or from their local bookstore or Amazon.com. (2nd choice) Make them work for additional knowledge but provide them the tools (deck of card) to grow with. Those that are truly interested will have the spark of magic ignite such desire; those that aren't don't learn anything of much consequence and, in any event, will quickly forget how to perform such basic tricks. And, in any event, it is much more difficult to forget the knowledge about the existence of a magical device such as a thumb tip then it is to forget how to do a clock spelling trick or a simple key card effect, etc.

Perhaps, as a bonus, you performing with a thumb tip but not exposing its existence or the methodology, might stimultate the kids'interest in magic even further and get them intrigued and wanting to learn more. If so, they would eventually discover the secret of the thumb tip on their own.

I have no problem with your teaching magic and trying to get kids interested in magic. My only concern is starting out with a device that is not really a beiginner's device, and which, with their limited magic knowlege, would be extremely limited in usage and application by them, and which, in any event, would expose one of the mainstays in many a working magician's repetoire.

In the interest of and for the good of magic in general, please reconsider you decision to expose the thumb tip. And best of luck to you in your magic teaching endeavor.

Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Blindside785
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DO NOT give the thumbtip away to kids. Give them ball in vase, or something like that
Daniel Ulzen
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Dear Mike,

thank your for your ideas, I guess you changed my plans. I will think about your string ideas.

But let me know describe why I believe things are at least a little bit different.

I am a working magician too and I perform the thumb tip in every one of my show and I am loving magic like you and I love the thumb tip. Why do I think to teach the thumb tip to kids? Magic as a hobby is in Germany not popular. 12 year olds are not in magic and think this is baby stuff. One reason for this is that especially in Germany magicians just give them the "little" tricks, the tricks they don´t like very much.

There is the alternative to teach them really good tricks for exemple like the thumb tip. I am not writing here about exploring in TV. I mean they have to pay for the product and magic course and they really learn the trick and we give our best to influence them to keep the trick a secret.

To use such a good trick as the thumb tip in a magic course for "normal" 12 year olds has advantages and disadvantes.

Advanatages:
- Kids get more interested in magic, a higher percentage of the kids might get into the hobby magic.
- Kids get more fun, respect, joy, friends, self-esteem, because the tricks are better. This can be VERY important for their life at least for some of them.

Disadvantage:
Not all the kids will keep it a secret so it could happen that some magicians perform the traditional routine of vanisnhing a silk and a spectator says "I know the trick" or "He uses an artificial finger". This is bad, of course.

I see the disadavantage. But I also see that if we don´t give the kids good tricks magic is not a cool hobby, not many kids are in magic, not many kids feel the joy of magic and lots of kids miss the benefits of beeing a magician (fun, friends, respect, self-esteem, ...). We know that a little percentage of kids and teenagers and adults make suicide. If we make magic a popular hobby I believe that some of our junior magicians will not make suicide because with magic they got something that helps them generally.

In my case (I am 37) I guess that without magic I wouldn´t live anymore. Magic was very important to mee. When I was a kid I bought the magazine "Yps" in Germany and sometimes the magazine has great magic tricks in it like the Egg bag. I loved these tricks and maybe because I bought the magazine with these great tricks I am still living. Of course when Yps published the tricks in the 70s and 80s lots of magicians protested and said to the responsible magicians: Don´t do that. But if you don´t give the kids great tricks you take a away joy from them and some of the kids might get suicide later in their life. This thought might be new to your and hard to believe but I am shure it is the truth.

So from my point of view it is not as easy as you write. Your opinion is bigly influenced by your personal interests as a working magician. We all have interests, that's ok. But the children of our world have interests too and they have other interests as you. They want to good tricks too that the working magicians wnat to have just for them selves.

As I wrote I see the disadvanatge of teaching a thumb tip seriously in a magic class for 12year olds. But I also see the disadvantage of not doing it. And I know that the thumb tip is explained by the masked magicians in TV for millions of people. So lots of people know the secret anyway. So when I ask my heart I think it is ok to teach the trick seriously to kids - if I swear them in. I might be wrong. I don´t know exactly. But Mike it might be also wrong to give the kids not very good tricks. For me this is not a black and white or easy question.

Have a great day!

Daniel ;-)
chappelly
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Glad you live in Germany!If you give away hundreds of these tips as you plan to do,that will decrease the value of this prop in magic.Many more non magicians will know the secret.
I would suggest that you take Turk's advice and wait for each student to prove their interest and motivation by demonstrating some basic rope and card tricks.
Their progression will lead them to the TT.
Another thing I've noticed is that kids love to expose magic tricks.

All the best Daniel.
freefallillusion1
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Quote:
On 2006-12-16 18:14, chappelly wrote:
Glad you live in Germany!If you give away hundreds of these tips as you plan to do,that will decrease the value of this prop in magic.Many more non magicians will know the secret.
I would suggest that you take Turk's advice and wait for each student to prove their interest and motivation by demonstrating some basic rope and card tricks.
Their progression will lead them to the TT.
Another thing I've noticed is that kids love to expose magic tricks.

All the best Daniel.


Couldn't agree more. The TT is a great "utility device"- it is not a "great trick". Too many people already know about the TT as it is. As for the TT being better overall, let me just say that I can do a killer routine using nothing more than a key card, and I'd be willing to bet that my approach would fool most knowledgable magicians. Think PRESENTATION... This way you're teaching the kids that magic is all about the finished routine, not all about a nifty little gimmick.

Phil
whitjm5
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"But if you don´t give the kids great tricks you take a away joy from them and some of the kids might get suicide later in their life."

Poor reasoning, I think. You could insert anything in place of "great tricks". If you don't give the kids:

pizza and soda
iPods
porno magazines
freedom to make adult decisions
allowance
the choice to go to school or not

Not that I think TTs are bad (as some of the things I mentioned probably are). I just wouldn't really count on them to prevent suicide.
tom_stamm
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Thumb tip for children - Don't hit it with a hammer. (:It hurts when I do that:)
Just Some Guy.

"For Seven Tons of the King's Tea,
Six Fine Ladies to Fight a Great Jackass -- me."
bobn3
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Daniel,

You have already made up your mind as to what you are going to do, which makes me sad. Being a child psychologist as well as a magician, giving young inexperienced (at least, magic wise) children is developmentally wrong. If you want to buy them tricks, get simple things like 2 card monte or the ball vase. Thumb tips are for further down the road for those children who have both the interest and aptitude.

Bob Phillips
Daniel Ulzen
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Hello Bob,

I didn´t started those courses yet. But I allready teached a thumb tip routine to several 10/12/15year olds. And I can tell you: They learned the trick. And it gave me a good feeling to see them proud and that I made their life a little bit better. So children at that age can learn the trick.

Maybe a part of the misunderstanding in this topic is that with children I mean 10years and older and you and others might think of younger children.

If we would teach 20 12yearolds and 20 40year olds a little thumb tip routine - which group would learn the trick better? I am not shure which group would win.

I studied psychology at university too. I don´t believe there is scientific knowlegde that 12year olds can not learn the thumbt tip for some reasons.

I guess psychological theories and knowlegde doesn´t help us very much for our work as magic teacher. What would be helpful would be a very detailed book about how to teach magic tricks to children. I guess this book has yet to be written.

Best wishes from Berlin in Germany

Daniel





Daniel,

You have already made up your mind as to what you are going to do, which makes me sad. Being a child psychologist as well as a magician, giving young inexperienced (at least, magic wise) children is developmentally wrong. If you want to buy them tricks, get simple things like 2 card monte or the ball vase. Thumb tips are for further down the road for those children who have both the interest and aptitude.

Bob Phillips
bobn3
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As I said, you have already made up your mind as to what you are going to do...run on out there.

Bob Phillips
Daniel Ulzen
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Hello Bob,

you are not reading carefully and you are not telling the truth. I didn´t wrote that I will do these courses. I am not shure if I will do these courses or not. You treet me bad but I can live with that arrogance. But you can do better then that.

Best wishes

Daniel
bobn3
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All I'm saying is that it sounds as if you had already made your decision. Please have the courage of your convictions.

Bob
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