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tsewnhoj
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Hey everyone. I don't know if you guys have heard of this video. But I picked up a copy of it the other day.

It's called "Marketing Your Magic in the Real World" by Scott Davis. He's an advertising agency executive who is also a magician.

Anyway, the video actually came out several years ago (like in 2000). They just put it out again on DVD.

As far as marketing stuff goes, it's pretty good stuff. I've looked at a lot of the stuff out there. This video is pretty cool the way he walks you through advertising and marketing examples from the real world.

I'd be interested in hearing from others out there and if you're familiar with this video.

The video can be found here: http://www.scottdavismagic.com/marketing/

I'm starting to build up my business and found what Scott had to say pretty helpful. Have any of you used his ideas?
icentertainment
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Great advertisment

is this discussed on the DVD?
Lyndel
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wrote the theme to the TV show COPS!
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I bought it when it came out on VHS but was really disappointed in the material. It might be good for a really green beginner, but as an experienced entertainer, there was nothing new on this for me.


Lyndel
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HowDini
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There are two things that I'm always leary of in this biz and I've been at it for over 25 years.

The first is when a self proclaimed successful performer has the time to make and sell videos,... when the profit margin of performing is much higher.

The second is when a new user seems to be promoting a product.

HowDini
Question: How did you do that?
Reply: No! How did you didn't do that, HowDini did that.
Doc Dixon
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Quote:
On 2006-12-17 09:22, HowDini wrote:
There are two things that I'm always leary of in this biz and I've been at it for over 25 years.

The first is when a self proclaimed successful performer has the time to make and sell videos,... when the profit margin of performing is much higher.

The second is when a new user seems to be promoting a product.

HowDini



Hello,
I'd like to comment on the first point (I have no interest in the second). I know Scott Davis. He's a good friend. I also gave a quote for the video. Now, with those qualifiers out of the way, here's the scoop on how busy Scott is. In a word -- very. When I first met Scott he was a part-time pro working at an ad agency. At the time I always thought Scott was rather busy for a part-timer. A few years ago he went full time. And now he is a very busy full-time pro. Because it would not be appropriate, I'm not going to go into the details of Scott's business. So you'll just have to trust me, just like yourself and myself, he is the real thing.

So why would a busy full-time pro market products? Before answering the question, I want to tell you, I think it is a very, very fair question. I haven't asked Scott this, but I'll tell you why I have sold magic products (and will be releasing several in 2007). The answer is "family and time." When I perform a show, I'm trading time (show, travel and prep) for money. That is time I can't spend with my family. But products are different. Once a product is created and ready to sell, it requires little more time than a 5 minute walk to the post office. Being able to create income while sitting in my big leather recliner is very attractive to someone who is on the road a lot (which is how I'm spending 5 out of the first 6 weeks of 2007). To use the business term, it's about "multiple streams of income."

And it should be stated that the money that can come from selling magic products is often not insignificant. I was recently having a discussion with one magic manufacturer. One of their products grossed 30K in sales in one month. Yes, that's the exception, but it does happen.

Respectfully,

DD
“For centuries we’ve said playing cards – even a single playing card – could reveal a person’s innermost thoughts.
Now you can prove it!”
See http://www.dixonmagic.com/page5/page5.html
TheDean
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Well presented Doc!
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success!
"Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…"

(*Marketing Doctor) Smile
Dannydoyle
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Doc, can I ask or add something here?

Lets put away the time thing ok? As someone who is on the road a LOT and has a family, let me say this. You are almost representing as if you can make as much money selling magic products as you can being on the road. So we can clear this up and say that if this is true, you are not charging enough to be on the road performing. You would have to have HUGE amounts of things for sale to even come close. This is what was being alluded too earlier.

Now we get to the heart of the idea, which you mentioned but glossed over. I am frankly HAPPY you said it for it shows integrity on YOUR part and I admire that.

"It is about multiple streams of income". Ok lets be honest THAT is why it is done. NOT A THING WRONG WITH THIS. I am an American and a capitalist to the end so please make as many streams of income as possible. I am all for it. BUT don't try to sell us on any other reason for releasing magic products. THAT is the goal.

As for a VERY busy person being able to have time to do these things, I can't imagine they do. But if he finds it great.

As for the new user, I really am sick of seeing it myself. It is an insult to our intelligence. I really wish guys would understand that not all of us are idiots.

Lastly as for the actual material, I am with Lyndel. If you have been arround magic for any amount of time, or understand business in general, there may be quite little here for you of value. UNLESS he has changed it for the DVD.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
nucinud
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If the DVD is good or not, or if it is good for beginners only, I can not comment, I have not seen it.
But you must admit that tsewnhoj's post sounds like an infomercial.
Which makes me suspicious from the get go.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



Now U C It Now U Don't

Harry Mandel

www.mandelmagic.com
Doc Dixon
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Quote:
On 2006-12-17 13:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
Doc, can I ask or add something here?

Lets put away the time thing ok? As someone who is on the road a LOT and has a family, let me say this. You are almost representing as if you can make as much money selling magic products as you can being on the road. So we can clear this up and say that if this is true, you are not charging enough to be on the road performing. You would have to have HUGE amounts of things for sale to even come close. This is what was being alluded too earlier.

Now we get to the heart of the idea, which you mentioned but glossed over. I am frankly HAPPY you said it for it shows integrity on YOUR part and I admire that.

"It is about multiple streams of income". Ok lets be honest THAT is why it is done. NOT A THING WRONG WITH THIS. I am an American and a capitalist to the end so please make as many streams of income as possible. I am all for it. BUT don't try to sell us on any other reason for releasing magic products. THAT is the goal.

As for a VERY busy person being able to have time to do these things, I can't imagine they do. But if he finds it great.



Danny,

Thank you for the kind words. Just one bit of clarification. It was not my intent to imply that, at least for me, that selling magic products generates more income than my performance fees. Far from it, lol. I was just looking for another way or angle to express the multiple streams of income concept as it relates to this situation. And I stand by the point, non-show income is very family-friendly.

Please realize, the primary purpose for posting my comment was to clear up any confusion regarding Scott's level of "busyness" which was alluded to in a prior post. I hope it accomplished that.

Respectfully,

DD
“For centuries we’ve said playing cards – even a single playing card – could reveal a person’s innermost thoughts.
Now you can prove it!”
See http://www.dixonmagic.com/page5/page5.html
scottdavismagic
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I was just notified by a friend of mine that my video was being heatedly discussed on the Café. So, I thought I'd drop into the conversations.

If you know everything there is to know about the marketing of magic, then you won't find as much good info as others might. I've gotten good comments from a lot of magicians who were both experienced and inexperienced. Michael Close reviewed it for the December 2000 issue of magic and give it at very favorable rating.

With regard to my level of busyness. The video was originally produced a few years ago when I was a part time pro. Although, I was busy then, I'm much busier now. Back then I was on staff as an Account Executive at an advertising and public relations firm. For the past few years I've been doing magic full time. I perform a mix of educational school programs and corporate events. I'm doing about 350 shows a year.

Can busy magicians put out products? Michael Finney is a very busy corporate worker. However, he's foud the time to put out a 3 volume video set. Should we assume that he must not be charging enough for his corporate gigs? I don't think so.

With regard to person who started this topic about my video:
Everyone on the Café does a great job of making sure that we respect the intellectual property rights of magicians and magic creators. Also, I've noticed that the Café rules prohibit the us from accusing one magician of stealing another magician's material. That is a good rule. However, whenever someone posts a recommendation for a product, all the members seem to run to his or her post count to decide if he or she has earned the right to recommend a product. If a users newness to the Café diminishes the weight of his or her recommendation then so be it. Maybe the Café should put a required number of posts number before people will be able to recommend a product. That might help the problem of new users having their intentions questioned openly in a community that they are seeking to be a part of.

Just a thought.
Scott Davis
bubbleburst2004
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Speaking of advertising copy, as we were .. I actually prefered his previous attempt,

"Hey. I don't know if you guys have heard of this product yet. But, I just got mine and it rocks. I saw the ad in the December issue of Magic Magazine.

Anyway, it's a really good floating wand. I went to the website
http://wizardwandz.com/ and watched the demo.

The product appears to be everything it promises to be. What's cool is the instructional DVD that came with it. Ed Magic (he's the guy who makes the wands) explains the setup and performance really thoroughly.

I've been burned too many times by things that weren't nearly as cool as the ad or website made them appear. The Wizard Wand wasn't like that. I think it's gonna be really good. I'm putting together some "Harry Potter" themed stuff in my show and this is going to be perfect.

After I got it I noticed the guy is actually only 45 mintues from me. No wonder I got it so fast. Since he's so close I may just make a trip down to see him."


tsrubelbbub
Doc Dixon
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Quote:
On 2006-12-17 15:51, scottdavismagic wrote:
Can busy magicians put out products? Michael Finney is a very busy corporate worker. However, he's foud the time to put out a 3 volume video set. Should we assume that he must not be charging enough for his corporate gigs? I don't think so.


Point well made, friend.
Here's another question, which I ask in a tone of tongue in cheek kidding, but it's too tempting to leave it alone:
Which takes more time -- putting thousands of post on the Café or shooting a video?
Second question -- which makes more money?

Just couldn't resist asking this ...

Respectfully,

DD
“For centuries we’ve said playing cards – even a single playing card – could reveal a person’s innermost thoughts.
Now you can prove it!”
See http://www.dixonmagic.com/page5/page5.html
Dannydoyle
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OOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKk Doc oops.

Listen as for number of posts you want to consider it in one way but not anohther?

Sorry can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it matters or it dosn't.

As for having the time to make about 9 posts a day? HMMMM do the math genious. Tongue in cheek or not it is a shot and needs to be addressed.

It would take FAR longer to put together a DVD set, oh if it wanted to be done correctly that is.

Oh and I mean this tongue in cheek. You were part time pro when this was compiled? HMMMM what about all the things you learn as a pro that sneak up on you? Maybe this is why it is only good for a beginner. Thank you for explaining it so well. As you are the creater we at least know why it is such a beginner course.

Oh that was tongue in cheek doc
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Doc Dixon
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Danny,

I regret if I have offended you. it wasn't my intent. I just assumed that, like me and dozens of others I've spoken with, you have joked about how easy it is to sit down at the computer, log on the Café and the next thing you know, BOOM -- an hour has passed.

And your point about the life of a part-time pro being different from that of a fulltimer? I agree. As I've written at least twice already, I posted on this topic for one reason: someone expressed doubts about Scott Davis' level of "busyness". Being familiar with Scott's business, I felt compelled to set the record straight. That's it. BTW, I do think it makes a difference that his full-time gig was in advertising, being that the subject of the video was marketing.

As far as my comment about the number of posts, you are free to interpret as you wish, but it wasn't intended as a "shot", a "dig" or even the ever popular "jibe." Just a little good-natured kidding (as I thought I made clear from the way I prefaced it) between two people who both do magic and read the Café.

Please chock up an offense to the vagaries of internet communication.

If it will assuage your psychological wounds, then "mea culpa". I, too, spend way too much non-productive time here ... like ... right ... now.

Respectfully,

DD
“For centuries we’ve said playing cards – even a single playing card – could reveal a person’s innermost thoughts.
Now you can prove it!”
See http://www.dixonmagic.com/page5/page5.html
Dannydoyle
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Since your setting the record straight, what exactly WAS his gig in advertising?

Oh and how exactly does that make anyone an expert on magic and marketing?

You should know that the 2 are completly different skills. Each has its own field of study. Some overlap no doubt, but still inidividual skill which to tell the truth seldem if ever intersect. My training is in marketing. I am HORRIBLE at layout of ads and such. BUT I can think in terms of a whole campaign big picture.

I do recomend with the limitations of internet communications that you limit your tongue in cheek references.

As for time here spent on helping people who want or need it I feel like this. I make PLENTY of money performing 5 nights a week, mostly 2 shows. I have no desire to market any effects or courses at this time. SO if I can help someone who is starting, why not?

You call it unproductive, ask anyone who has been helped and tell them it is such. Probably more productive and rewarding than selling nonsense that others do. (NOT directed at anyone in particular).
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
keithmagic
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Danny -

What is your point… exactly?

Many people come on here touting about this or that marketing product. I don’t remember any of them being grilled about “what exactly their position prior to being a full time pro” was. And from the look of some of their materials, packaging, and advertisements, I don’t think they have extensive experience in layout and design either J.

If you question really is “Who is this Scott Davis guy” - he‘s not generally party of the online magic community clique - I can answer that.

Bottom line - the guy is a worker. Having had the pleasure of spending time with him and his gorgeous wife in Las Vegas on several occasions while they were in town working, I can say he knows the magic biz, and I would be willing to bet that he works more that 90+% of the café crowd.

You’ve never heard of him (which I suspect is the real reason this thread has taken the tone it has) because he is a worker.

Keith
Author of "The Festival Entertainer" The Professional Entertainer's Guide to Booking and Working Outdoor Fairs, Festivals, and Events.
Available at http://www.howtobookfestivals.com
Dannydoyle
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Ok Keith you want to jump in go ahead.

First off we had a problem with Mr. new user touting a DVD on marketing. LYNDEL and myself said that it had relativly little that could be used by anyone who had been in business past an absolute beginner. LYNDELS words.

HOWDINI mentioned how he felt it was strange how such a busy performer had the time to sell DVD's and produce them.

Then Doc jumped in not liking where it was going to try to stem the tide. In his post he mentioned how he sold tricks as an EXTRA in come stream.

Then my point was the same as HOWDINI, you make far more performing tricks than selling them.

Scott jumped in to try to stop the madness!

Nunkid decided an infomercial was suspicious from jump street.

Doc decided to try his tonge in cheek routine, and I took offense.

SO my POINT was, and OTHERS POINTS IF YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD, that when Doc made the remark about busy and making posts on the Café' that perhaps it helps others to GIVE them the information rather than sell it to them.

My point also is that new users putting infomercials on the Café is suspicious.

I don't personally care either way how busy Scott is or isn't.

My other point is that advertising and being in an ad agancy does NOT necessarily make anyone good at marketing.

I hope this synopsis keeps you from the obvious trouble you are having readinig all the posts.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Bill Scarlett
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Quote:
On 2006-12-13 21:19, tsewnhoj wrote:
Hey everyone. I don't know if you guys have heard of this video. But I picked up a copy of it the other day.

It's called "Marketing Your Magic in the Real World" by Scott Davis. He's an advertising agency executive who is also a magician.

Anyway, the video actually came out several years ago (like in 2000). They just put it out again on DVD.

As far as marketing stuff goes, it's pretty good stuff. I've looked at a lot of the stuff out there. This video is pretty cool the way he walks you through advertising and marketing examples from the real world.

I'd be interested in hearing from others out there and if you're familiar with this video.

The video can be found here: http://www.scottdavismagic.com/marketing/

I'm starting to build up my business and found what Scott had to say pretty helpful. Have any of you used his ideas?




Fantastic! Have Scott send his book to Magic and Genii Magazine for their staff to review. If it gets a positive review, I would certainly consider it. No offense, but I like to get an unbiased opinion from a trusted source, rather than I person I don't know.
Donald Dunphy
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For Bill -

A quote of an earlier post on this thread:
Quote:
On 2006-12-17 15:51, scottdavismagic wrote:
If you know everything there is to know about the marketing of magic, then you won't find as much good info as others might. I've gotten good comments from a lot of magicians who were both experienced and inexperienced. Michael Close reviewed it for the December 2000 issue of magic and give it at very favorable rating.


The VIDEO was reviewed in MAGIC magazine. Guess you have to consider it now. Smile

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Bill Scarlett
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I stand corrected. Just went back and read the Magic review and it was favorable. Still wouldn't mind seeing it reviewed by Genii, based on the mixed reaction of one who has purchased it (Lyndel).
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