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Peo Olsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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After reading Eric Mead's terrific book "Tangled Web", Hermetic Press, 2006, page 123, I quickly got Dai Vernon's "More Inner Secrets of Card Magic", Lewis Ganson, L&L Publishing, 1996, page 76, out out of my magical library to re-read about this fantastic gem.

My question now is if there is anyone performing TTTCBE on on a regular basis, and are able to tell the audince reaction on if it succeeds as it should?
Perhaps you also can tell your point of view how to best perform it.
Pictured to the left my hero and me during FISM 2006 in Stockholm.
Daegs
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Yes. It gets perhaps a better response than any other card magic you can do sans extra objects (such as card to impossible location, a signed card revelation, etc). Gasp, puzzled looks and pure astonishment should all be appropriate.

There are many doing this, its just generally only good performers (not technician) can pull this off.

There have been many threads on this, I suggest you do a search as its been covered many times....(also look up "Calculated Risk" which was Harry Lorayne's "version" of this).
Ben Train
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I don't understand why anyone but a magician would find this more amazing then any other well constructed routine. When a card is selected and controlled, the audience shouldn't know it. I'm sure we're all in agreement about that.

When a card is named and controlled with either a cull or memorized deck (putting aside arguments about which is better for a second), the audience shouldn't know it, correct?

And, when the card is revealed, the spectators should be amazed at WHAT was done, but have no idea how it was done, correct?

So then, by that logic, wouldn't any good routine accomplish that?

TTTCBE is a great training exercise, but there are better, more clear (often), and sure fire effects. For magicians, if you can do this well, sure, it could very well be a fooler. But for lay people, I think you can do much much better.

For anyone still wanting to give this a try, I suggest giving yourself the biggest advantage possible, and learning the memorized deck. Mike Close has a great version (The Trick That Can Be Explained) as does Tamariz (Nemonicosos, which, by my book, is very similar in many aspects).
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

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Mesquita
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The routine I use is the version with Tamariz stack. It kills every time I do it.

Regards,

Mesquita
"Siempre somos tres me acompaña la luna y me sigue mi sombra" René Lavand
vinkelhaken
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If I'm not wrong, the delight with the TTTCBE, done correctly, is that the procedure is embedded with the presentation and the presentation itself adds to and builds the effekt.
Magiguy
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Peo,
For a terrific supplement to all of this, go back to Racherbaumer's Artful Ledger column in Antinomy #5. That is what got me to pull my copy of Inner Secrets down off the shelf. I just ordered Tangled Web, so I'll be looking forward to exploring your reference.
Art-Fantasy
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I like TTTCBE, and the good thing about it is that it improves ur improvisaiton skill and it makes you creative. I haven't been doing this effect. Thanks to this thread!
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2006-12-19 05:26, Nordatrax wrote:
I don't understand WHY anyone but a magician would find this more amazing then any other well constructed routine.


Perhaps it has to do with the manner in which it's presented.

I perform Harry Lorayne's Calculated Risk - his variation on Vernon's original - all the time, and get incredible reactions from it. Why? Probably because I do everything openly and deliberately. I let the audience know beforehand that I'm going to "fiddle" with the deck after it's shuffled. I stress to the audience that they make sure when I show them the cards that I'm doing nothing more than what I say: showing them the cards. There's nothing to see, and I make absolutely certain that my audience knows - not merely believes; knows - that there is nothing to see.
BarryFernelius
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I've seen Eugene Burger do an entire routine based on different ways of performing The Trick That Cannot Be Explained, both for ordinary folks and for magicians. He gets extraordinary reactions that have to be seen to be believed! Max Maven is another performer who can do miracles with this type of effect.

I've done this effect for many years, and I've found this effect to be very rewarding. This effect is remarkable because it has the potential to change how you look at the world. If you practice this effect diligently and perform it regularly, you will surprise yourself with the kinds of miracles that will occur. You'll begin to see the potential for magic in all kinds of situations where you didn't see it before. But it all depends on you and your attitude.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Daegs
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Nord, I have to say your wrong.

Either you aren't presenting it correctly or you just have never seen it done correctly, but believe me its on a whole other level.

There are some things in card magic that laymen know to be impossible, something so simple that it is definitely impossible. A tabled card prediction of just throwing a single card on the table and having it really be the named card would be an example. Or having someone think of a card out of a group of cards and with no time delay simply pulling out that card. ETC...

With TTTCBE, properly done it seems like this type of impossible thing, where even if you WERE controlling the card it would still be impossible because of the choices they made. The fact that the entire thing is setup to arrive on one card, and ONLY one card with no moves makes the revelation impossible even when compared to other standard card effects(i'll concede that a card to XXX, some card tricks with a heavy setup, blank cards, etc could be as strong).

I do both it and mnemonicosos to get fantastic reactions... I think it can be hard to present obviously, but properly done it has no equal because of the sheer fact of how lucky you always are(just different kinds of luck).

I think effects that are not 100% definitely get a better reaction than tricks that are sure fire, by the sheer fact that the audience knows when something is out of your control... but here you are using not being in control as part of the method, very very devious.
Jaz
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With TTTCBE there is no "succeeds as it should".
It's all about luck and 'outs' and some outs are stronger than others.
Do it a few dozen times and decide on the best ways to end the effect.
Paul Sherman
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Martin Nash uses TTTCBE to locate 3 cards in "A Hard Ace to Follow," his handling of the Hofzinser Ace Problem. I prefer the concept within the framework of a larger routine, instead of just using it to find a selected card. Other's mileage might (and apparently does) vary.
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
Peo Olsson
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Quote:
On 2006-12-19 10:38, Magiguy wrote:
Peo,
I just ordered Tangled Web, so I'll be looking forward to exploring your reference.


Magicguy,

You be in for a treat when you have recived the book.
Pictured to the left my hero and me during FISM 2006 in Stockholm.
ggarcia
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San Antonio Tx
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I have seen numerous people do this effect and the best performance of it is by Roger Smith from Ft Worth Tx I believe. There was mention above of using a mem deck and that to me totally takes the effect away. this effect has the advantages of being impromptu and the spectator can shuffle the deck. I heard Roger mention at the last TAOM in Dallas that he was considering coming out with something that goes over this one effect. If that ever happens, it would be a must have.
DonEngland
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I think you have the spectator shuffle FIRST and then..as the trick procedes
in as few outs as possible they arrive at a single card. At least this is
how I do it. The reaction will vary by how many outs are needed. This effect
has a great name and if used at the right time has its own response.
I think it is done more for the performer than for the spectator and is in
the 'cannot be explained' group of effects.
scorch
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Quote:
On 2006-12-19 16:44, Daegs wrote:
I think effects that are not 100% definitely get a better reaction than tricks that are sure fire, by the sheer fact that the audience knows when something is out of your control... but here you are using not being in control as part of the method, very very devious.


Yes. I would also say that the Psychic Stop is another example, as well as Cagliostro Cuts the Cards from ECT. If you have the modest skills to rely on the outs, it really does put things in a miracle class if you can take the leap of faith enough to rely on luck for the "miracle," and on your improvisation skills for the outs.
wsduncan
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I have to agree (partially) with Nordatrax. The strength of TTTCBE is that it cannot be explained (BY THE SPECTATOR) because the method is non-existent. It relies on random chance and experience as much as anything, and those are simply not the means that a spectator would suspect. The “method” is that the spectator doesn’t know, that you don’t know what the trick is yourself, until it’s over.

It rates very high on the impossible scale, but it’s often not as impressive as other tricks that are clearer in effect.

And before someone tells me I haven’t seen the trick done “right” let me state that I have seen Eugene Burger do it repeatedly for a single spectator. I’ve also seen Max Maven do this kind of work, as well as Jamy Swiss and I’ve had some good success with the trick myself.

If you have to go past two procedures to get a hit, it starts to weaken considerably.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2006-12-19 05:26, Nordatrax wrote:
I don't understand why anyone but a magician would find this more amazing then any other well constructed routine. When a card is selected and controlled, the audience shouldn't know it. I'm sure we're all in agreement about that.

When a card is named and controlled with either a cull or memorized deck (putting aside arguments about which is better for a second), the audience shouldn't know it, correct?

And, when the card is revealed, the spectators should be amazed at WHAT was done, but have no idea how it was done, correct?

So then, by that logic, wouldn't any good routine accomplish that?

TTTCBE is a great training exercise, but there are better, more clear (often), and sure fire effects. For magicians, if you can do this well, sure, it could very well be a fooler. But for lay people, I think you can do much much better.

For anyone still wanting to give this a try, I suggest giving yourself the biggest advantage possible, and learning the memorized deck. Mike Close has a great version (The Trick That Can Be Explained) as does Tamariz (Nemonicosos, which, by my book, is very similar in many aspects).


I am glad you said that and not me. I agree with every word, but really am glad YOU get the stones this time as opposed to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cohiba
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As WS Duncan referred to - I was at a convention and had Eugene Burger do his version of the trick to me, probably about 5 times in a row. It was killer. You obviously need to practice this to have it play strong, but it was one of the most memorable tricks I'd ever seen. The cards were seemingly out of his control, but he had me pick out a random card that matched his prediction every time.
Ben Train
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Quote:
On 2006-12-25 19:01, Cohiba wrote:
As WS Duncan referred to - I was at a convention and had Eugene Burger do his version of the trick to me, probably about 5 times in a row. It was killer. You obviously need to practice this to have it play strong, but it was one of the most memorable tricks I'd ever seen. The cards were seemingly out of his control, but he had me pick out a random card that matched his prediction every time.


I don't disagree, this was probably a very memorable trick. Mind you, having Burger perform a potentially magician fooling trick for me 5 times in a row in a convention, would be memorable for me too.

And that's the key phrase "Magician fooler". Think about this- theres no control, no force, no known method. That's what makes it so good. Except, only MAGICIANS know, or recognize, a force, or control. If I force a short card on someone, then have them shuffle, then pulp friction it to the bottom, as far as they know, layman I mean, its JUST as impossible.

So why risk having a subpar climax when I can GUARANTY a fantastic one with one of the well structured MIRACLES I do? Anyone?

And, if there REALLY are guys performing this, and getting better reactions then other workers out there, Id LOVE to see it.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
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