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GrnAlien
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Mars
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I have a couple of double lift questions. I have been practicing the double lift on and off for 6 months and I am still not comfortable with it. I know and practice 4 different styles but like I said Im still not confortable. I was curious to ask a few people who have mastered it a few questions. I cannot do the lift consistently. Once I finally think Ive got it I mess it up under pressure. How did you know when you had it down and what improved your confidence besides sleeping with a deck of cards. Do you still practice it or was there a pinnacle of your practice or a moment that pulled you through? I really feel like a big part of the magic I will practice depends on this because the abitious card depends on it and I love those routines. I have put it down for a week or two to come back to the same problems. And If I successfully do it once or twice in public I allways come up against the magicians arch rival "The PESSOMIST" who says you know what!!! I would really like to hear your points of view on these questions and some of your stories. THANX
Green Knight
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I cant say that I have got the double lift even close to mastered as I am only back into magic for a month or so after a few (10+) years off, though I am working on a trick that requires a tripple lift so I can put in one thing that I had been told... Use a new deck. If you keep with an older one (used one that is), they tend do stick more and that has helped me a lot. Actually just cracked open a new one last night...

Brad
Jaz
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If you haven't already done so, check out this topic.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=2&0
There's tons of info on the DL here.

After a lot of years I still wouldn't say I 'mastered' DLs. I do them OK most times but can still fumble. It took me quite a while, working with different DLs, to find a couple that felt good to me.
Because DLs are used in a lot of routines the DL & DLT(T=turnover) are moves I practice a lot.

Of the 4 types of DL which do you feel most comfortable with?

Confidence comes partially with practice and gets stronger with each performance.
In any case, a fumble is not the end of the world and can happen no matter how much you practice.

Good luck,
sjballa147
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I would focus on one double lift at a time. Makes it a lot easier to get down. Possibly the one you think is most natural.
Good Luck
Shane
marty.sasaki
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One thing to keep in mind is that the DL doesn't have to be perfect. If your turnover is natural looking then no one is going to be trying to see a move because they don't know one exists. Of course getting it perfect is a good thing, but don't obsess about it. Get it to flow and be natural.

Can you do a double lift without looking at it? If you look at your hands then your audience will look at your hands too. If you are casual about it you won't draw attention to it.

Definitely check out the other DL threads, lots of good information. Continue practicing, then just do it. Learn an ambitious card routine and practice the routine rather than just the DL. Get things natural and flowing.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
Chatterbox41
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For me, the most important part of a double lift is a natural movement. Take the deck in your hand and turn over a card. Then look for a double lift that emulates the way you naturally turn over the card. I've seen some double lifts that were invisible, but never looked natural to me. I learned my double lift when I was 13... fortunately it seemed to come easy to me and I've used it over 35 years. I'm not sure, but think I learned it from Tarbell Volume I that I borrowed from the local magic club library.
DStachowiak
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One thing that will help with any move is if you can take the heat off. Try looking your spectator in the eyes and ask them a question, USING THEIR NAME. "Bob have you ever seen this before?"
Names have power, very few people can avoid looking up if you say their name.
I think I would work on one DL exclusively for a while before adding the other three. There's nothing wrong with knowing four DLs, but I think its more important to be able to do one confidently that four you aren't comfortable with.
Tarbell is a good place to start, and you can't go wrong with Royal Road.
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Rod Lages
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Quote:
On 2007-01-03 22:32, DStachowiak wrote:
Try looking your spectator in the eyes and ask them a question, USING THEIR NAME. "Bob have you ever seen this before?" Names have power, very few people can avoid looking up if you say their name.


Amen

Try to perform as much as you can. Working under pressure will not be a problem after a while. I use Derek Dingle's double lift mostly but get one you feel more comfortable with.
"Confusion isn't Magic" - Dai Vernon
TAJ
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This is one of the most important sleights in card magic and should be practiced until your fingers beg for mercy. It takes time and discipline but it is worth it. Choose one DL and practice until your sick of it and then practice some more.

I practiced the Dr. Daley DL or instantaneous DL for three months. Every day I would practice for about 20-30 minutes with this sleight. I would take my deck and just practice getting two cards and then placing them under the deck. I would practice this over and over until I could DL perfectly 26 times in a row (a whole deck). The turn over came later with the appropriate snap.

When you say you fumble under pressure it could be a number of different things:

1. Have you scripted your trick?
2. Have you practiced your trick to perfection?
3. Have you slipped your spectator a five spot?

Your DL might be the least of your worries if you haven't routined correctly.

Taj
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2007-01-03 14:14, GrnAlien wrote:
How did you know when you had it down and what improved your confidence besides sleeping with a deck of cards. Do you still practice it or was there a pinnacle of your practice or a moment that pulled you through?


You asked "How did you know WHEN you had IT down" which signifies one method not four. Master one method first, the one you are comfortable, confident and natural with. Sleeping with cards is a figure of speech, I know, but improvement in confidence comes with performing in public and becoming comfortable. Do I still practice it? You bet, it's a lifetime pursuit. The pinnacle of achievement is different for every individual and when you reach it you will know. There is a lot of wisdom in this forum and you are just a click of the mouse away from unlocking that wisdom.
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munkywrench
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Check out Gregory Wilsons Double Take.
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montemagic
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Remember when practicing, if your are not already, practice an entire effect that utilizes the double lift. Like an ambitious card routine. When you repeatedly do just the double lift, you get careless with repetitions and have imperfect turn overs. Many people notice that they do it great the first few times, then it gets sloppy. You need to do it once, then take a rest before doing it again. Not only does this help with the DL, it also helps you get down a full effect.

Greg Wilsons Double Take video is great, there is some great material there.
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Koolmagic114
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I agree with DStack and Marty. The most important thing to to make it look not like a move. For myself what I used..and it just works for me.. holding deck in mechanics.. I just naturally push over top couple/few cards with my thumb. While my right hand first finger just pulls up 2 cards. Flips them over.

As someone mentioned you just keep doing it until you fingers beg you to stop. Sit in front of your TV while watching and just keep doing it without looking. Until it feels natural.

Get yourself a small practice mirror.. and try not to look away or blink at that crucial moment :-D.. Better yet if you have a video recorder those will be your best eyes.

As for the pressure of doing the "move" that will go away foro the most part when you become comfortable with the move and yourself dong it.
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DStachowiak
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Quote:
On 2007-01-04 12:30, Koolmagic114 wrote:


.. and try not to look away or blink at that crucial moment :-D..


I still catch myself doing this! What a perverse impulse it is that causes me to blink or squint at the crucial moment!
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ryesteve
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Even if the DL is performed imperceptably, don't you often run into spectators who know what you've done as soon as you flip the cards back over and replace them onto the deck?
bg
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Half of the double lift is the misdirection away from the cards as you do it. As others have said look at the spec in the eyes and then do it when their attention is away from the cards, then your turn over doesn't have to be perfect.
Andy the cardician
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As mentioned above, misdirection helps a lot . . .

It is also important that you do some of the single lifts in the same manner. I often start with a single lift and then playing around with the card until everybody knows that it is a single one . . . this is a strong convincer
Cards never lie
ChristopherM
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Some of the more savvy youngsters in my old school, which I left last year, are actually familiar with the concept; it having been exposed on a Masked Magician Street Magic TV show. On the whole, it still goes unnoticed by the vast majority of people once mastered. The point at which you know you have it mastered is when you can do it naturally without the frustrated/nervous feelings you're getting at present.

Not sure whether 4 different ways are really necessary? Perhaps 2, but just find what you feel is the most unassuming, logical and natural way to actually turn the top card over, and simulate this action in one DL move. That's the way I see it, anyway.

Cheers

Chris
The Amazing Noobini
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I also have only a few months experience with card magic. I think I do some pretty nice and relaxed DLs most of the time now but I also have frequent inconcistencies.
The biggest inconsistencies are when I change decks since the glide feel is so different from new/old/plastic coated/airflow decks.

To be honest, I have hardly ever seen any magician do a double lift that doesn't stand out as somewhat stiff and unnatural. Or theatrical and flamboyant. Once you know about the existance of such a move, you sort of see it almost every time. If someone doesn't know that it is possible then I guess they won't notice as long as you don't spread too far.

I think that the most secure and relaxed looking lifts commonly used still look quite different from how you would turn a single card if you were to do it fast without thinking.

My natural way of turning over a card without thinking would be either to push the entire card directly sideways with my thumb and then grabbing/snapping it over with my right hand. Or to do the same except that the flipover would be towards my body as opposed to from it. I'm trying to work out a DL a bit like that. I just started on that.

From a break, it seems possible to push the two cards directly sideways off the pack with the left thumb as long as the outstretched right thumb is at the bottom right corner to steady it. That thumb is hopefully almost invisible since people will not focus on it. Maybe. Any thoughts on this? Perhaps it will be my one contribution to card magic. Smile
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ChristopherM
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Thanks 'Noobini' - intriguing Alias, by the way...
The natural way of flipping over the top card you describe sounds almost identical to a strike/hit DL/DT. For another VERY natural and disarming DL check out the great R Paul Wilson's website: http://www.rpaulwilson.com/videos.htm It's accurately titled 'The Ultra Natural Double'. Cheers.

Chris
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