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ryesteve
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On 2007-01-11 11:19, Vandy Grift wrote:
Why don't you describe how Ed is supposed to do this, from the time the card is selected, returned, and on to the shuffle.

Maintain a break at the point where the card is returned. Go into an overhand shuffle, cutting at that point. Toss down the first batch of cards flush with the deck, and then jog the remaining tosses after that. Once done, you can either cut at the jog and be done, or cut at the jog and repeat the same shuffle as often as you want, as long as you ultimately end with that single cut to the top from the jog.
DomKabala
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Or begin the shuffle, have the card returned and injog the next card and continue to shuffle. Thumb break under the jog and begin another shuffle sequence. When the break is reached just throw the rest of the cards on top. Viola the chosen card is on top. Simple stuff!! (but effective)
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Vandy Grift
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I like to shuffle to the break as well KRZ4kardz. Ryes method will work too.

The thing I like about the Hindu is that it's a lot easier to do without looking at your hands. Jog shuffles are easy as well, but they require a bit more practice in my opinion. Espically if you are not much of a card handler to begin with. Beginners tend to look at their hands when they do jog shuffles. That may not be a problem for Ed, but I was taking it into consideration anyway.
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DomKabala
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Vandy, I couldn't agree with you more. The Hindu was the first shuffle I learned. It's easy and efficient. But it's funny, since I learned the OH shuffle many moons ago, my Hindu is all but gone. I end up playing 52 pick up when I Hindu Shuffle now. Smile
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<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>> Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

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docmagik
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The overhand shuffle control, at least the way I do it, doesn't involve any jogs. I'm not cooridinated enough for that. Smile I do it just like the hindu shuffle control, except I hold the cards from below rather than above, and I hold the short ends rather than the long ends.

I hope that makes sense (It's hard being helpful and vaugue at the same time).

Basically, you just do exactly the same thing with the card you want to bring to the top as you would in a hindu shuffle, but you're just holding the cards the way you would hold them to overhand shuffle.
Vandy Grift
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That makes sense docmagic. I just tried it and it seems workable. It's a little ackward for me to grab the little "block" in that position. But to you it's probably second nature.

You know, when you do that, you are bascially in the position you would be after sliding the jogged card back and claiming the break in a jog shuffle. I'm sure you are plenty coordinated enough to do jog shuffles. Don't sell yourself short!! LOL!
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DomKabala
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Have the card selected, signed or just committed to memory. Cut the deck and have the selection returned to the bottom half. Toss/drop the rest of the deck at an angle toward the front. An automatic jog will result if you do it correct. Get a thumb break under the jog and go from there. Double undercut, OH shuffle and so on.
Cardamagically,
<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>> Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



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Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 14:44, KRZ4kardz wrote:
But it's funny, since I learned the OH shuffle many moons ago, my Hindu is all but gone. I end up playing 52 pick up when I Hindu Shuffle now. Smile
Cardamagically,
<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>> Smile


HA!! I know the feeling.
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Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 14:59, KRZ4kardz wrote:
Have the card selected, signed or just committed to memory. Cut the deck and have the selection returned to the bottom half. Toss/drop the rest of the deck at an angle toward the front. An automatic jog will result if you do it correct. Get a thumb break under the jog and go from there. Double undercut, OH shuffle and so on.
Cardamagically,
<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>> Smile


I use that strategem all the time. Either with the toss/drop as you said. OR with a dribble which makes it very easy to create a jog condition.

And honestly, if you are smooth, you don't even need a dbl undercut. You can get the break, riffle the deck, and then just swivel the top half over to the left hand and drop the bottom half on top. It looks quite fair, espically if you go right into some other false shuffle or top stock control.
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DomKabala
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Yeah, depending on how you obtain the break, you can control the card second from the top to lead into an ACR or whatever.
Cardamagically,
<<<KRazy4KaRdZ>>> Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



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Vandy Grift
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See Ed card magic is fun!!! LOL!

Come join us and dive headlong into the world of pasteboards!! I love card magic.
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Ed_Millis
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 14:37, Vandy Grift wrote:
Beginners tend to look at their hands when they do jog shuffles.


*This* beginner tends to freeze and stare hard, breaking into a cold sweat, at anything in his hands other than a change bag. Smile Smile Smile

I finally figured out how to work that without looking! Shows what lots of practice will do, huh?

Ed
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It's all about the practice. Even the simple things have to be practiced until they are routine.
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Vandy, The Little Giant book has one of my all time favorite pieces of misinformation. There's one trick that uses a trick deck (Svengalli or Stripper I think). In the suggested patter it says "Here I have an ordinary deck of cards". I've always wondered if that book was just incredibly bad or downright malicious. Maybe the author was mad at the publisher but under contract.
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Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 17:02, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
Vandy, The Little Giant book has one of my all time favorite pieces of misinformation. There's one trick that uses a trick deck (Svengalli or Stripper I think). In the suggested patter it says "Here I have an ordinary deck of cards". I've always wondered if that book was just incredibly bad or downright malicious. Maybe the author was mad at the publisher but under contract.


I know it. That's a really bad book. I'm sure I just picked it up at a Barnes and Noble or something. I don't even remember when. It is really bad. They "teach" a dbl lift and palming! There are a few things in there that are useful, but it's mostly junk and if you learn the bad stuff along with the good you will be all screwed up.

Horrid, horrid little book.
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DStachowiak
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On 2007-01-11 08:05, Andy the cardician wrote:
The double undercut is really a magician's thing - notice that no layman is doing undercuts. If I want to casually bring a card to another location, I always use common shuffles - overhand and hindu . . .

Andy

It should look like you just cut the cards a couple of times. It looks like that because that's what you do. If it looks like "a magician's thing" you are doing it wrong.
That being said, the overhand and Hindu are both fine, although there aren't a lot of laymen doing the Hindu either.
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DStachowiak
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 17:14, Vandy Grift wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-01-11 17:02, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
Vandy, The Little Giant book has one of my all time favorite pieces of misinformation. There's one trick that uses a trick deck (Svengalli or Stripper I think). In the suggested patter it says "Here I have an ordinary deck of cards". I've always wondered if that book was just incredibly bad or downright malicious. Maybe the author was mad at the publisher but under contract.


I know it. That's a really bad book. I'm sure I just picked it up at a Barnes and Noble or something. I don't even remember when. It is really bad. They "teach" a dbl lift and palming! There are a few things in there that are useful, but it's mostly junk and if you learn the bad stuff along with the good you will be all screwed up.

Horrid, horrid little book.

There are two different "Little Giant Encyclopedias"
"The Little Giant Encyclopedia of Card and Magic Tricks" doesn't even list an author, and I'm not surprised. It's awful. It's credited to something called "The Diagram Group"
"The Little Giant Encyclopedia of Magic" is by Bob Longe, and a far better book. Bob Longe has written a lot of small books of general card and coin tricks, and most of them are not bad, lots of self working stuff and some basic sleights.

Since both "Little Giants" are published by Sterling Publishing, I'm not sure why they both exist, but the second one is the only one that deserves to.
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Vandy Grift
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Thanks for clearing that up D. I have a lot of respect for Bob Longe, the version I have is defiantely the "The Diagram Group" version.

I wouldn't give it to anyone trying to get started in magic. Too much bad stuff in there.
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Josh the Superfluous
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I was referring to the diagram group's atrocity as well. Their web site makes them appear to be a book writing factory.

RE non-layman moves:

"there's not much people where I live that do hindu shuffles"
"The double undercut is really a magician's thing - notice that no layman is doing undercuts"

Are there laymen having cards selected and finding them with magic? If you want to live by laymen methods, riffle shuffle, table cut and no more. But if you don't mind portraying yourself as a person with more than a passing familiarity with cards, all of the controls mentioned are acceptable. The Hindu and overhand shuffles are both used as legitimate shuffles. They both make sense to the spectator.

Ortiz points out that the real question is what comes next. The hindu supposedly leaves the card lost in the center. The overhand supposedly mixes it somewhere in the deck. If the card appears in an impossible location (outside the deck), perhaps it's better that it was last seen lost in the middle. If the card appears during a deal, at a point stopped by a spectator, perhaps it's better if it was randomly mixed.

I suggested the hindu shuffle because it's easy to learn, the left hand cradles the cards so they don't get dropped as often, and it does double duty as a force.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
DStachowiak
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Quote:
On 2007-01-11 21:57, Josh the Superfluous wrote:

"there's not much people where I live that do hindu shuffles"
"The double undercut is really a magician's thing - notice that no layman is doing undercuts"

Are there laymen having cards selected and finding them with magic? If you want to live by laymen methods, riffle shuffle, table cut and no more. But if you don't mind portraying yourself as a person with more than a passing familiarity with cards, all of the controls mentioned are acceptable. The Hindu and overhand shuffles are both used as legitimate shuffles. They both make sense to the spectator.


Thanks josh, that was what I was trying to say by implication, you made my point better than I did.
Don
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