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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts 
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I don't disagree at all with the notion that P&T are very fine magicians and artists.
However the heading is "Right or Wrong" and the question is "How do Penn and Teller justify exposing illusions". I am not at all convinced that asking this question indicates a failure to appreciate their good points. I, for one, concede that they are well-liked, well-known, popular, very fine magicians making more money off the art than most of us could ever dream of. So, is what they do NOT exposure? Or is it ACCEPTABLE exposure in light of the good points? Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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I don't see any reason for Penn and Teller to "justify" to the magic community anything that they do...
I have no quarrel with any of the so-called exposures they commit. They are successful artists doing work that meets repeated success. We should all be learning from what they do that is working so well; rather than criticizing it. I think that the so-called "exposure" stuff they do is both good entertainment and good magic. I think the complaints about it are all misguided and from a narrow and inartistic point of view about magic. It is that narrow vision that they are questioning and needling. The lay audience gets it. I don't see why magicians don't. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Anyone who sees the show will come away with a differing point of view. Most of the nagging and complaining comes from those who think they expose for a living.
The show they do is tremendous on so many levels it is tough to comprehend! Forget the misdirection, skill, timing and all that magic stuff we chatter endlessly on about. Their skills in theater are second to none in magic and few outside.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-07 19:50, Whit Haydn wrote: Hm. Makes ya kind of wonder, don't it? |
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lebowski Veteran user 377 Posts
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Likely the person who started this thread never saw a Penn and Teller show, perhaps they saw a TV appearance and got the wrong idea about what they actually do.
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-11 05:33, stoneunhinged wrote: Simple... the audience LIKES exposure...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-11 09:10, mandarin wrote: Mandarin, I don't think you could be more wrong. The audience doesn't go to Penn and Teller to find out how tricks work. Exposure is not what they are up to. They fool their audiences badly. They don't insult the intelligence of the audience. They are fine entertainers and very fine magicians--as good as any I have seen. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Anyone who thinks Penn and Teller do "exposure" is in despirate need of seeing the show they do in Vegas.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Well, Danny, I HAVE seen the show they do in Vegas (this past December), and in Columbus, and their World Tour Vids (for God sake get rid of that music), and various YouTube vids, and I own their "Playing In Traffic" book. I don't just think SOME of what they do is exposure, I have seen it with my own eyes.
Whit, I have earlier conceded that P&P are "fine entertainers and very fine magicians" to use your words. However, that is not what this thread is about and we need to move beyond it and further away from ad hominem. Please, folks, I am not debating this for practice. I really believe some of what they do is exposure. To my mind, this fact can not be mitigated by their entertainment or magician skills, any more that a great sport's star, let's say, should get off easy for a speeding ticket. I also believe those who rise to "Star" status have a palpable influence on the young or otherwise impressionable and, therefore, a responsibility for the possible effects of their actions while performing. I would posit that were their act peppered with smoking cigarette magic, for example, there would be a hue and cry about its influence on the young. I really think I have a valid point, and that it is not "misguided", from a "narrow and inartistic point of view" (although I fail to see what is wrong with that), or "more wrong" then what I could come up with given an effort in that direction. Since I have neither the experience nor the stature of those with whom I spar, and seem to be quite alone in my opinion, I shall quit the contest and sink back into the lurking mode. Please allow me to do that... Thanks, guys. Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-12 10:45, mandarin wrote: Permission granted. 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-12 10:45, mandarin wrote: No need to do that. Just tell us EXACTLY what they do that is exposure, that is any worse than say a gambling demonstration.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts
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I think P&T's cups and balls routine is one of the most entertaining I've seen!
MMc |
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gkfreed Special user 532 Posts
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Vernon did it on a small scale in his Cups and Balls, exposing the fake vanish of the small ball then blowing the audience away. Penn&Teller do this on a grander scale.
Do you think the audience comes away from a P&T show thinking, now I know how that's done? Or do they come away thinking, they were just toying with me on the explanantion and now I have NO idea what happened? These men are master magicians and truly entertaining performers. But as Dennis Miller so perfectly put it "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong" |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-12 17:35, Dannydoyle wrote: Well, would their very recent "show" on AGT qualify?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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markmiller Special user 731 Posts
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No it doesn't. They actually fool the audience with the method they exposed. Think about it.
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-13 18:55, gkfreed wrote: YES, I think they either come away just as baffled OR some may even be inspired to learn magic themselves because of the fun the experienced watching P&T! MMc |
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts
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As an aside, I'm driving to Las Vegas a day early for Magic Live specifically to see P&T tomorrow night. I've been eager to see "The Red Ball", Teller's take on the David Abbott floating ball trick.
P&T are truly artists. |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts
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Have FUN and drive safe Donal!
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noble1 Special user 651 Posts
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You won't be disappointed the ball is unbelieveable, espescially if you are familiar with the Abbott book you will see how many new innovations are in the routine, impossible to follow.
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts
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Thanks, Mickey!
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Posted: Aug 7, 2009 11:11 pm 
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