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jlevey
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Perhaps you could hand out a business card to the "client" at the end of your show that reminds hinm or her to...

"Pay what you feel my show is worth, but please note that the average magician in our area charges $900"... (or insert the money figure that is representative of your particualr geographic region).

The challenge will be (if they "really" like your show (and like "you")), for the client to "plan ahead" so that he/she withdraws enough money from the local bank machine in advance, to pay you what you're worth.

Hmmm... what if they really "REALLY" like your show, and place a high monetary value on it (and take the money out in advance)...

The Amazing Todsky will be laughing all the way to the bank! And what if they hand him a check and it's "blank"?!

I'm telling you, I know Todsky and he is capable of great things... do not underestimate him, nor underestimate his "experiment".

Respectfully,

Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment
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todsky
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Well, I don't know if I'd reccomend this experiment for a professional who depends on his livelihood. Me, I'm getting a little bored, taking somewhat of a sabbatical from the magic business anyway, so it might be a good time to try this. Maybe I'll just try it with birthday party shows, see what happens.
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
Tom Stevens
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Australia
361 Posts

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Please let us know if you do try it.

I thought about trying this technique, allowing them to choose what the price is just to get a booking!

And then in the confirmation letter state that I welcome what they think it is worth, and that my competition are all charging $250 plus.

Unfortunately I am only too aware that many people budget $100 or less for the entertainment. So I don't feel inclined, at this point to try this technique.
SpellbinderEntertainment
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West Coast
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I guess my question is,
would any other performing artist,
in any other entertainment field,
try this stunt?

I don't think so.

If we wish our audiences and clients,
to respect us as craftspersons,
and develop a respect for magic,
as either an entertainment or an art,
we cannot afford to treat it lightly ourselves.

If what we do has value (and it mostly does)
then we charge for that value.

You don't walk into K-Mart and say,
yeah, you want ten-bucks but I only got five with me.

There are other creative options to explore,
which won’t affect other performers,
if you are “getting a little bored”.

Magically,
Walt
icentertainment
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What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.
SoCalPro
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Southern California
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Quote:
You don't need to trick them. You would just need to tell them, out right, what the cost of a magician is. You tell them that a bad magician gets $150, a good magicians $250 and a great magician $300 and then let them choose how much.


What if the client LOOOOVES your show but either does not know what a performer SHOULD be paid or can only afford $150.00 as stated above?
SpellbinderEntertainment
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West Coast
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Quote:
What if the client LOOOOVES your show but either does not know what a performer SHOULD be paid or can only afford $150.00 as stated above?


If the client Looooves you r show,
they will find a way to pay your fee,
OR they will hire a magician they do not looooove.

It is common for someone to pay more for the table centerpieces,
or flowers, or cake than they do on entertainment,
and it is up to the entertainer to change that perception and trend.

Our job is not only to “sell” our show but educate our clients.

If they can afford to rent a Ford that’s what they drive.
If they can afford to rent a Lexus that’s what they’ll drive.

AND if they see the need to rent a Lexus rather than a Ford,
that’s what they’ll agree to rent.

I doubt the local gourmet restaurant
would allow any patron to spend a TacoBell budget,
just because the patron claims to loooooove their food.

BTW, when I do book a “family style” birthday show,
my bottom rate is $475.00 plus any out-of-area travel,
for the standard half-hour performance,
and if they want what I provide they gladly pay that,
just FYI.

Another two-cents,
Walt
mdspark
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783 Posts

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Quote:
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.


I really don't see the need to get ugly and make veiled insults. Todsky has thrown out an idea for consideration..possibly a valid approach depending on sub-market and or region...maybe a good approach in helping good organizations with little extra funding...AND not to mention a possible approach for a young but well rehearsed upstart to get his feet wet.

You opinion is welcomed but not the attitude it reflects. I think his idea may have some usefulness..although somewhat limited...depending on one's location and region and market. Sure, I can understand how a ful time pro simply could not and would not want this approach..and you know what? That is OK. It is also OK for others in different circumstances to consider.
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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There are performers out there doing this very thing for gospel shows for churches. I don't think I've read that comment yet.

They accept a "free will offering" (often collected at the show) as payment.

In some cases, they also let their customer know in advance what their normal fee is, so the customer has a range to aim for.

Sometimes they get more than their normal fee, sometimes they get less (according to one performer I know who does this with his church customers). For this one performer, it all works out in the end.

These types of performers have not gone bankrupt.

And as far as I know, the audience is not manipulated into giving more than they want to.

For this to work, it depends upon the relationship you have with your customers, and the faith you have in the situation and their generosity.

So really this is not a new idea, but a very old one. It's just being applied to a different market.

- Donald

P.S. Personally, I do not do a "free will offering" style of payment for my church shows. I request a specific fee. But it seems to work fine for some performers I know.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
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Buskers, and ministers work for donations all the time.

Donald
What was your answer "I think it is a good idea, but for other people"? Yea I'm not one of those OTHER PEOPLE either. Those OTHER PEOPLE who do magic in Churches for donations are either retired, or have a day job.

Todsky
I have liked your other ideas in the past my friend like a no props show, or ride a bike to work (in Montreal?), but on this one you will get burnt. Of course a successful producer like you, who is on his way to Broadway can afford to give it away.
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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icentertainment
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Inner circle
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Quote:
On 2007-01-28 02:46, mdspark wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.


I really don't see the need to get ugly and make veiled insults. Todsky has thrown out an idea for consideration..possibly a valid approach depending on sub-market and or region...maybe a good approach in helping good organizations with little extra funding...AND not to mention a possible approach for a young but well rehearsed upstart to get his feet wet.

You opinion is welcomed but not the attitude it reflects. I think his idea may have some usefulness..although somewhat limited...depending on one's location and region and market. Sure, I can understand how a ful time pro simply could not and would not want this approach..and you know what? That is OK. It is also OK for others in different circumstances to consider.


Perhaps think about it for 30 seconds before posting
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
On 2007-01-29 11:29, Al Angello wrote:
Buskers, and ministers work for donations all the time.

Donald
What was your answer "I think it is a good idea, but for other people"? Yea I'm not one of those OTHER PEOPLE either. Those OTHER PEOPLE who do magic in Churches for donations are either retired, or have a day job.


Hi Al -

That's an opinion, and you're entitled to it. (BTW, I never said they were retired or had another FT job. I know for a fact that there are some who do shows like these for a FT income.)

Like I said, I don't do it personally, but I know some people do it. Good for them!

For everyone who hasn't passed judgement on this idea --

Instead of saying it can't work, or doesn't work, why doesn't someone ask the right people HOW they make it work? The answers are there for people who honestly want to know, and want learn from others, with an open attitude. And people who want the right answers learn how to seek out the people to give them.

If anyone wants to learn more about the power of asking, and all the nuances of that, read the Jack Canfield book, "The Aladdin Factor."

- Donald

P.S. The world is either for you or against you. Either way, you are right. Smile
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
James Munton
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Dallas, TX
1199 Posts

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Donald,

On this occasion I have to agree with the others who think this is a really silly idea.

If he's not booking any shows, he'd be better off examining why that is before trying something like this.

If he's having such difficulty booking his show for a decent fee then one of two things must be true:

...either his marketing is awful or his show is awful
...or both.

He'd be much better off trying to fix the above.


Best,
James
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
7418 Posts

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Don't misunderstand me.

I'm not telling him to do it, or not to do it.

All I'm saying is that it is a "possible" idea, if a person does their homework first to understand how to do this.

- Donald

P.S. I had the impression that Todd wanted to do this as a different way of charging a fee (an experiment). I didn't get the impression that he wanted to do it because he was having a difficult time booking shows, or getting customers to pay for his requested fee.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

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Todsky
You will make out lots better busking, but wait till Spring time after all you do live in Montreal. That way if you look in your hat you will know instantly if your show is any good.
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
todsky
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www.magicstore.ca
2328 Posts

Profile of todsky
Quote:
On 2007-01-26 01:45, icentertainment wrote:
What a stupid idea

It's a sure fire way of going out of business fast.

But that being said- If you are the run of the mill kind of performer as your web site suggests than you need that kind of angle to survive.

I personally charge more than most people and make it because I deliver the resault the client is looking for.


Ice, I guess you didn't understand the intention of my idea. Try reading carefully this time. And please refrain from juvenile insults.


First, a little background:
I've been performing for over 25 years, and for the past 10 years I've been doing over 200 shows each year, and I make a fine living at it. My reputation as an entertainer (mostly kids shows) in this city is very good. I am making enough money.

As some others have noted (those who actually read my previous posts), I am going through a little change in my life, kind of a sabbatical from the magic business in order to pursue some other artistic interests (writing, music, theatre.) I live alone, have a cheap rent and very few expenses, so this allows me to pursue my artistic vision wherever it takes me, without having to worry much about making lots of cash. I believe the best way to be an artist is to focus as little on the money and as much as possible on the creation. That being said, I am obviously not a businessman. Most of my success as a magician was a result simply of putting on an entertaining show, and happy customers then referred me to others.

My idea is not for making more money. My idea is subversive. This is an exercise in imagination. What if? It's an interesting premise, if you are able to think beyond the bottom line.
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
James Munton
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Dallas, TX
1199 Posts

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Sorry, Todsky,

I also misunderstood your original post. You posted this in "Tricky Business."

I don't think that how much you charge has any effect on one's creativity. So why not just charge a decent fee?

If you have a personal hang-up against earning money, then that is something quite different.

I don't think earning money negatively affected the Beatles' creativity for example.

Best,
James
icentertainment
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This is the business section- Show business is about the bottom line----go post in the fairies section.

I read your initial post and for your benefit I will now re read it.....
here it is for everyone to re read

"Dear customer: Please pay according to what you can honestly afford, and according to how entertaining the show was. Just put the payment in a sealed envelope"

OOOOH I still think it's a stupid idea- actually even more stupid now that you got me to re read it.

juvenile insults

I'm not here to hold your hand and baby you- I will say what any professional would want to say- they just don't know how to say it.

Any pro out there who is an actual pro- (not one of the "yeah I do 98 shows a month" BS artists on here) will tell you that in the real world (not the matrix world) it doesn't work and is a sure fire way of losing income and also losing respect from your clients.

stupid is as stupid does the question is- are you going to do this method of charging
James Munton
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Inner circle
Dallas, TX
1199 Posts

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David,

You crack me up.

Best,
James
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

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James
This is the classic confrontation between business man, and artist. We all must be a little bit of both to make it.

David
You can't hold everything in, please tell us what you really think.

Todsky
I like your style.
HAVE FUN GUYS
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
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