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JamesR
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I have only been studying card magic for about 9 months, and am currently working on the ambitious card routine from Card College 2 (Great books, by the way). I have read some other people post that they finish their routine with card to wallet, but I was thinking that card to ceiling would be a killer ending, and it would fit right in with the theme of the card always rising to the top (it can't go much higher than the ceiling).

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this, and what kind of reactions it got.
Joshua Lozoff
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Oh yes, that is a common and terrific way to end an ambitious card routine.
Joshua Lozoff

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WilliamWHolcomb
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I don't think that ending an AC routine with a card-on-ceiling effect is good. The reason I say this is because once the audience understands you can manipulate a card to the top of the deck at your will (they surely don't believe it's magic!) then the card-to-ceiling looses its impact.

The whole idea behind card-to-ceiling is that the card mysteriously jumps out of the pack and gets stuck on the ceiling. After seeing your AC routine it's not a great leap to figure out the card was controlled to the top. It destroys the effect.

Just my 2-cents...
William Holcomb
Dynamike
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I perform my card on the ceiling using Michael Ammar's method. Spectators love it. If you need more info, send me a pm.
WilliamWHolcomb
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Quote:
On 2003-01-07 22:25, Dynamike wrote:
I perform my card on the ceiling using Michael Ammar's method. Spectators love it. If you need more info, send me a pm.


PM about what?
William Holcomb
JamesR
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I can see your point, William. I had assumed that audiences already suspected that a card was controled to the top in card to ceiling, but this may not be the case, and they would definatly assume that the card was controled to the top after seeing an AC routine.

I do feel that the "magic" in the AC routine is the way the card always manages to find itself on top, and I think card on ceiling offers a nice climax, as the card can't go any higher.

I agree that ConC will not be as mysterious as it would be if done a seperate effect, but I think that using it as the climax of an AC routine will make the routine much more magical.

The biggest problem that you alerted me to was that most spectators will realise how ConC is done, after seeing the routine. In this way, you are right that it destroys the effect. This is something I had not thought of, and it is making me reconsider using it.
WilliamWHolcomb
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Glad I could help. Not my idea, though. I had a similar question a few months ago and this was the advice I was given. I don't use the two effects together anymore.

I have had some success in doing a card to ceiling before doing the AC. Somehow no one seems to connect the two and they still think the card jumps from the middle of the pack!
William Holcomb
TheAmbitiousCard
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Michael Ammar on his video on the Card-to-ceiling decided against using it as an ending to the Ambitious card for the reason william suggests.

Apparently, from what I remember, Ammar used to think it was a perfect ending to AC and later stopped doing it.

I think this is good logic though at first, it seems perfect.
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Michael Dustman
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I have seen performers such as Doc Eason, Michael Ammar, and Steven Kline do exceptionally entertaining Card on Ceiling Routines. A full fledged routine by these folks is at least five minutes long. I think the Card on Ceiling is strong enough as a stand alone effect that it does not need to be incorporated into an Ambitious Card routine.
WilliamWHolcomb
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Michael,

I would agree that the Card on Ceiling is strong enough that it doesn't need to be used in an AC routine, but I think JamesR was asking the opposite. He's used it to strengthen the AC effect.

JamesR - have you tried Daryl's Ultimate Ambition? This is a great close for AC.
William Holcomb
LeConte
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Which ending is more magical in the eyes of the spectator?

1)The pop-up card (which blew my mind the first time that I saw it. I was stunned and could not figure it out at all)
2)Daryl's Ultimate Ambition (I have this and it is convincing, but is it overkill? Made for magicians or laypeople?)
3)Card to Ceiling (Ruins Card to Ceiling as a trick for your audience, but is the Ambitious Card made stronger? Is the routine made strong enough to warrent this finnish?)
4)Card to some other location (sounds like a good way to end)

This card trick does demand a big ending. The question is, what is big enough without being overkill, or crossing into other effects?
Drive Carefully
WilliamWHolcomb
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I'd like to find a way to produce the signed card from a spectator's wallet or purse! Any ideas?
William Holcomb
manix
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In the context of the Ambitious Card, there is no climax better than the bent card pop up. I agree with your suggestion that a lot of these alternaitive "super" climaxes are complete overkill and designed to appeal to magicians.

This is just my opinion of course.

Card on Ceiling/to wallet/other impossible locations are different effects entirely and can all be great in their own right.
Geoff Weber
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my current way of thinking is that after showing them several phases of the card magically jumping to the top, do a phase where they can actually see what it *looks like* as the card travels upward through the deck.. For this reason I think Roy Waltons Ambitious movie makes a strong ending, and once I learn it, I will probably replace that with Ray Kosby's Raise Rise or Aaron Fisher's Ambitious Graduate.. I think these are options are some of the strongest endings you could ever hope for.
sjdavison
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I agree with William, that it ahouldn't be used with an ambitious card move, as it almost feels like you are 'showing' them that you can control a card. I personally use the card on ceiling as a climax, to a 3 phase routine, where (hopefully) the revelations are more and more impressive, and si the reaction to the card on the ceiling is more than it would be anyway. I first use an imprompu haunted deck, then use Daryl's hot shot cut revelation, then stick it to the ceiling. I like this, rather than having three cards picked for the three tricks, just throwing them all in together.
Just a thought,
Simon, 21, UK
Simon, 32, UK



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TheAmbitiousCard
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I've started doing the following:
I have the spectator put the card in face up to "prove" that it is going in the middle.
Then I do the turnover control (don't know the name of it. some call it the bladder control) to contorl it to the top as I turn it over (face down). Then, I reveal it.

I do this a couple times with different spectators (not in a row).

This sets up the audience for the following face-up revelation to close the effect...

I replace the face-up card into the middle using the "tilt" move and I tell them it will happen by itself, slowly.

I biddle-grip the deck and move it in a circular motion as I one-hand-top-palm the top card.

The larger movement of moving the whole deck covers the one-hand-top-palm and the selection comes into view in a very visual way!

Layman see it as pure magic since you can't be "doing" anything while you're biddling the deck.

The @#$% card just appears face-up!!!!

I slip the selection off with my thumb and toss it to the table.

As they look at the selection you can
use many options to cover for the cleanup of the palmed card...grab the deck, spread it on the table with the palming hand, or back pocket the top-palmed card as you lean to spread the deck with the clean hand.

... or just put the darn card back on the deck as you point.

I got the circular movement to cover a top-palm from someoene here at the Café. I regret that I do not remember who.

Just last week I thought to use this "face-up tilt" and add it to end the AC effect.

I found this gets a better reaction than the pop-up move so I end the effect here.

p.s. I usually snap my fingers to make the magic happen. I'm thinking that "waving" the deck like this could/should be used during the effect so that when it's done face-up, it's the same magical gesture.

I'll have to make a note of that.

Frank

thoughts?
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Geoff Weber
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Frank: A slip cut of the top card would accomplish the same thing and is a little easier to do than a palm. (See the "control knock out".) I do this a the opening of my routine, because its snappy fast and super-visual, and since they are more than likely going to ask me to do it again, I have the perfect excuse to move on with the routine.. Some magicians just do phase after phase after phase of the ambitious card because they think its cool... it can really wear a person down.. In my routine, I keep trying to simplyify it and make it easier for them to follow the action. So I do phase, and then say perhaps that was too fast, then the next phase I say that using my fingers to push the card in could be held suspect, so then I use a card to push in the card.. etc..
TheAmbitiousCard
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Um.. I should have stated that i'm doing a one-hand top-palm. I did not state that in the original post. I'll go re-edit it.

A slip cut would take 2 hands.???

The effect I'm trying to produce is that I wave the deck around and the card "JUMPS" to the top all by itself.
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JamesR
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I have not tried Dayrl's Ultimate Ambition, is there a book I would be able to find it in?

The pop-up card ending is strong, and it is the one that I originally learned. I think I will stick with it for now, as I don't want to hurt Card on Ceiling by revealing the method.
Geoff Weber
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You need two hands to slip cut, yes... but if you do it less like a cut and more like a pull down the bottom half and the top card, with the top half relatively motionless, it looks like a card just popped face up. Plus you get a popping sound wich I like.

or if you want a harder method, the flippant move also give the impression of a card popping onto the top of the deck.
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