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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Poker Protection - Cheating by Steve Forte (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pavloter
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Quote:
On 2007-01-19 20:30, sibbie wrote:
Pavloter - Order from Meir Yedid and international shipping is free.
It's not, I already ordered. It is free only if you buy items for $300, otherwise it is %20 add.
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sibbie
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My fault. I was going by the outer advertising; not the detail page. Apologies for the mispost.
Expertmagician
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Oh well.....20% is not bad for a heavy book .... and Meir is still a great guy ... regardless of the 20% Smile
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sibbie
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Anyone know how many of the signed books were put out?
Pavloter
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On 2007-01-20 09:25, Expertmagician wrote:
Oh well.....20% is not bad for a heavy book .... and Meir is still a great guy ... regardless of the 20% Smile
Yea true, but then with Casino one I needed to buy another items to get 300$, as don't really want to pay only 40$ for shipping, you know I mean. But otherwise it is pretty cheap.
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Expertmagician
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On 2007-01-20 12:15, sibbie wrote:
Anyone know how many of the signed books were put out?


No...but, considering the supply and publicity, I suspect the unsigned books may be worth more than the signed one's Smile
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papermechanic
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My copy came in on saturday and I had a brief opportunity to skim through the book. its nice to have a consolidated informative source like this that contains information about the many facets of cheating at the card table. I havent read his casino cheating book, so I am unable to comment about how much the material differs in each book. but in my opinion $50 is a great deal for this book and anyone still considering picking it up should definitely do so.
Pavloter
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I can see this book to getting sold out soon, because of the price and Steve's reputation. Every one who couldn't afford Casino one will want to get this one.
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memph33777
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Everyone here who has made money off one of these casino protection books I would like a show of hands. please type 1,000 if you have made money cheating at cards or dice from some of these books.
thanks Memphis Jay
Expertmagician
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Very funny....they are not teaching books. So, while experienced people will pick up many subtleties and get ideas to refine their technique....beginners will have a hard time learning the sleights.

And shame shame to those to admit cheating Smile

In addition, even though I don't know Steve well....I don't think that he would want to promote card cheating considering that he works for the casinos. Unless he wants some people to try the methods, so he can catch them and his business of "casino protection" will improve Smile

When I say they are not teaching books...what I mean is that....while they expose a cheating method, they to not teach technique.

let's take a second deal for example.....

1) Books may show photos of a second deal (ie. second card being dealt). They do not discuss hand positions, timing, misdirection, hand action/movement, etc. etc.)
2) Video may be better becaus they show the move in action...but, many do not teach the technique to master the move.
3) On the other hand, some magic videos and books go into great detail on such sleights which are dual purpose for magic and gambling. Of course, we prefer that the moves be used for entertainment vs. cheating.

What they do "teach" or show, is the simple existance of such a move or technique. Sometimes they even show how to detect the cheating technique...but, they intentionally leave out details to truely make the sleight/method truely deceptive.

I am not saying that I don't enjoy these books or videos...I do.....But, while I can hope for new material or insight....I usually find that 90% is a rehash of existing published information. But, I am happy with that 10%
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Expertmagician
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I believe that the various book and video "gambling expose" sellers can work under fire (ie. I believe that they can "do")..... But, they are either too nervous or they believe it is wrong (which is likely) or the find that they can make more money (and safer money) consulting and writing books or videos Smile

I do sometimes get tired or seeing the same moves and/or gaffs written or shown from supposedly "new" books. That is why I go by the 10% figure...If I learn 10% from a book or video I am happy. Sometimes even a single idea can make the information worthwhile....But, to each his own...and everyone has their own value system...far be it from me to judge Smile
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Expertmagician
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Hey...someone removed a couple of replies (Guess the Café g-ds)...now my post above may be taken out of context....

In general, I was commenting on someone saying that book writers and/or video authors can't "do" so they "teach"....I was pointing out my point of view above.
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memph33777
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Hey they removed my replies. they are probaly friends of steve's. lol. go figure!
memph33777
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By them deleting those posts it throws everything out of whack! Me personally I feel like a guy helping the casino is like a little guy being in a fight with a big guy and me handing the big guy a baseball bat! Casinos are crooks, so why should anybody want to help those crooks beat the little guy? doesn't make sense to me. Players are for the underdog. A player would help the little guys take down the casino!
Expertmagician
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Casinos are like smoking.....if people choose to partake and know the risks against them....se la vee Smile
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MagicSanta
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I'm a bit at a loss with you guys saying posts were removed but none the less I want to make a quick comment on the book, which I've read most off. Steve Forte is w/out a doubt an expert on the subject of cheats. While cheating at poker is not like it was years ago there is a great interest in it and he took the 44 pages from his major work and expanded upon it to over 300 pages. It is very well written and complete and is pretty much a text book. Forte isn't accusing, in fact he makes this very clear, the casinos of cheating and he is very clear in not wanting fingers pointed at cheats from years past who may be active in playing legit poker.

Memph, carry on with whatever you do but to call the casinos crooks isn't accurate. They don't have to cheat, odds are in their favor and this is information available to all, poker they make a percentage (why many play home games). Someone who is a cheat is a crook but don't confuse advantage play with cheating (card counting isn't cheating).
Expertmagician
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I just want to make it clear, I never called casinos crooked...modern day casinos don't have to cheat....the odds are stacked in their favor...I heard stories about the early days of Vegas...but, that was many, many years ago and I don't know if they are true....but, the "old timer" I heard it from was credible.

Bottom line is that casinos have been ligit for years...especially today.
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memph33777
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In my opinion anyone who says casinos don't cheat is wrong. The odds are stacked in the casinos favor. The casino is a carnival game like when you go to the carnival and you shoot pool and try to win a prize and your stick is so crooked and the table is probaly not level. And do the gaming commissions have experts? lol. It amazes me how people call 3cm and 3sg a scam and a ripoff but the casino has the odds on their favor. Well 3cm and 3sg workers have the odds on their side also and those odds are the hand is quicker than the eye! Talk about a double standard, Geesh!!!!!!!!!! Cigarette and Liquor Sellers don't have to be illegal to get money but they have killed millions and millions of people whereas heroin and cocaine dealers have killed millions and millions but theirs are illegal. Both are wrong. I guess the 3cm and 3sg workers don't have enough money to pay the states cause if you pay a state enough money they will let you do anything! Thus Cigarettes, Liquor, and Casino Gambling. So what is the difference in a casino gaming expert, a Tobacco lobbyist or a Liquor lobbyist? don't they all support hurting people?
TheCount
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Would you categorize lotteries the same as casinos? How about arcades? On a grand scale, are they really so different?

I think you'll find the reason why casinos aren't considered to be cheating is that they are honest about what they are doing, while cheaters typically are not.

You can argue one way or another whether you think that is right or not, there are, after all, many people who consider gambling immoral, but fundamentally the difference is openess about what is being done.
Expertmagician
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Since we are talking definitions...I'll tell you my perception.

Gambling (ie. casinos) have the odds stacked against you by various percentages (most games are 1% - 15% for table games depennding upon what you play and what you bet. Other games, like slots can have as much as 18%+ higher against you. That is why some bets are called "sucker" bets.

Bottom line is that you stand a chance of winning....if you are lucky enough to beat the odds.

Conversly, a cheat does not give you any chance to win. an extream case is 3-card monte. I would not call that gambling...it is cheating because you have no chance of winning unless the dealer/team makes a mistake.

Another example....lets say you are "cheating" and stack the deck or do bottom dealing or use a marked deck...sure, the player can get lucky and get a better hand than what you "controlled". But, you have reduced the players odds of winning to 1-5% (95+% chance against him) which is not reasonable from the players point of view (since he thinks he is getting a "fair chance" Smile

Bottom line: I call cheating something where you stand virtually no chance to win AND of course casinos are legal and cheating is not. Smile

So I guess we are talking semantics...

So here's to skewing the odds Smile ... at least when we do magic and gambling expose routines.
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