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WoodRat
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Miguel,

I'm glad you posted here. I started one, then deleted it as I wasn't sure how to make the point. I think you stated things very well.

In the music business we have the same problem and it is very bad. So many bands/artists competing for a small pool of venues has led to lower wages for everyone, the quality of the music/entertainment has suffered as some bands now play for free just to be heard - hey, and you get what you pay for.

In the end it is bad for everyone. As the quality of the entertainment tanks, patrons come less often, club revenues decline and more pressure is placed on finding cheaper entertainment... so most clubs now have a DJ or even a jukebox instead of a band. The better bands that are still working are working twice as hard to keep the pay scale healthy and we're losing the battle.

So, the same thing can happen in magic, if everyone continues to undercut each other, the situation can only get worse.
Learn something new everyday.
Dannydoyle
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Ok to address the issues.

Yep I caution against exactly this type of thing. I am sorry to see it happened. If you take away knowlege and learn from the experience all is not lost.

As for not being here, well yea bluntness and truth are not high on the priority list.

As for Rickbrooks, well as was said not all of us have the same thing. Being rude where you are from will not be the same as in Philly, or Chicago or New York. I don't happen to be a fan of sugar coating the truth, as when it comes up and bites you in the but, as in this case, it hurts far more than any words I could use. One could make an arguement that coddeling people actually hurts them in the long run.

So since I HAVE NOT been harsh on this thread lets please not turn it into a "is Danny to mean" thread. It is not an issue and we have plenty of those to go arround. I will indeed be kinder and gentler, and far less helpfull in the future. If feelings are what is important, than it is feelings I will spare.

I like Rich do not go to tables "cold". I bet we have similar systems, although I never asked him.

I personally would never approach an establishment with a magician. BUT I have had literally HUNDREDS of guys do it at places I work. I am not judging it right or wrong, simply not something I would choose to do. Ironically I think most magicians in general are working in the wrong places anyhow, so it is not really an issue.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JeffMac
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Sudbury, ont
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On the original post, if you make claims beyond what you are capable of you pretty much deserve to lose the gig. It's like lying on a resume if you tell me you can up my numbers and you don't you diddn't fulfill you job requirements. If the other guy took you job without undercutting your wage even better for him.

Woodrat I book entertainment all the time and I constantly hear the same thing from musicans. The reality as far as I am concerned was for a long time people were preffering D.j.s to Live bands in most venues. It gives a better range of musical style, your not limited to songs that a piticular band plays, and ya a d.j.s cheaper. There is still a market for live music thou and it is growing. Are there bands that work cheaper than others? Of course there are, I probably wouldn't book most of them because they have no draw to them thou. Bar owners and managers are smarter than we look. We realise that if we bring in quality at a higher price well make more when the night is done. We also arn't fond of having the reputation of a bar that brings in hack bands. Same goes for the restraunt owners I know. There is a level of quality that every buisness feels they need to live up to if I can get someone cheaper but without the quality I'm not going to book it. If someone you think has the same talent as you is under cutting your prices you still have 2 options cut yours or get better.

Danny again good to have ya back.
The whole approaching a table thing I think matters more depending on the enviroment of the bar or restauant. When I perform in the Bar I have no problem approaching a table. The place is a meat market and people expect to meet new people. Same would go if I ever worked a chucky cheese. People are begging to be interupted if they eat there. When I worked Higher end it was all on request.
and anywhere in between you gotta find what works for you.
patrick flanagan
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Danny,
Welcome back! Hope the electric shock therapy wasn't too intense. Wondering if you could elaberate on your comment that most magicians are working in the wrong places. What places, in your opinion, are right or wrong for magicians?
Patrick
Dannydoyle
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Patrick are you trying to get me into trouble? LOL


Send me a PM and I will elaborate for you in private so as not to ruffle feathers and get misinturpreted and told I am mean.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JeffMac
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Danny stop being mean and share with the rest of us
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2007-01-25 14:19, Vandy Grift wrote:
I'm sure he will be back someday.

Even if they did do that thing that I'm not saying that they did do...The person who has had that done to them usually gets to come back after a time.

Maybe he'll come back the way McMurphy came back to the ward for the last time in "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest". All calm and docile and lobotomized. Nice and passive, just the way Nurse Ratched likes it. LOL!


Who would play the Indian?

Also, in the original post, there's no indication that the other magician "undercut" the first magician to get the job. He even says the guy was a "better" magician who's mailing list enabled him to actually make good on the "increaed patronage" promise.

If we have the ability to do something "better" than the guy that's already there, don't we have the right to come forward and present ourselves?

OTOH, If the only reason he knew this venue was there was because first magician <told> him so. That was low. That ranks up there with Michael Jackson telling Paul McCartney he was going to overbid him and take the chance of Paul to get his songs back away!
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
Who would play the Indian?


If I answered that, I have a feeling it would be the last thing I posted for 30 days or so.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
magicmanci15
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Ok. so I did tell him where I worked, and after being there for a couple of months he had the job. But he then emailed me and said he had no idea it was me that worked in that place. did he forget? Is he trying his best not to look horrible? I only say he is "better" because he's been performing magic for 20 and me for 7. He's done countless shows, and worked in restaurants for many years also. He has a mailing list of hundreds of thousands of people that hes worked for. His claim is better backed up, no doubt. I blame myself 100% Maybe Ill just show up in a disguise and heckle him ;D

Just Kidding. Two wrongs don't make a right. Im looking for the perfect place that I can stay at for a longtime. Hopefully they'll hire me for all the reasons we both want.

Ivan
Tom Bartlett
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When I was in grade a school, I had a teacher that would say: “It’s not a popularity contest”. She also talk about Marx and Stalin as being great men of vision. The reality is, we are always in a popularity contest from birth to death, period.

I’ve had sales swept out from under me by other sales people male and female for no other than they were more likeable, better looking, had great personality, or the buyer just wanted to spend more time with the saleswoman because she really look hot in those short skirts. But all is not lost, later when the bottom line was not as good as it appeared (pun intended), I was able to get the client back. What really sucks, is when, not only are they more likeable, they are just as competent and have as good or better product.

Our magic and our personality, are the products we are selling it, not just to our audience but to the owner or manager also. So if someone is more likable or has a better product we will have to change the way we do it or what we do for the better. I will also agree that things happen for a reason and every cloud has a silver lining and it’s up to us to find it.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2007-02-01 12:16, Tom Bartlett wrote:
When I was in grade a school, I had a teacher that would say: “It’s not a popularity contest”. She also talk about Marx and Stalin as being great men of vision.


Yeah, I went to public school too. LOL!
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Tom Bartlett
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Vandy,

I think the communist have finely succeeded taking over the public school system, thanks to the teachers union. This is not just from a parents point of view, I also teach. The school books are so skewed to the left it make teaching impractical, and it not just the history books either.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Vandy Grift
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Tom,

I have no doubt about it. It's funny, when I was in High School, practically the only teacher that didn't extole the virtues of some sort of communism/socialism utopia was my Russian Soviet Studies/Russian language teacher, who actually lived under communism.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
MAKMagic
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Ahh, VandyTom, you have both climbed another few rungs on my likeness ladder
.:Michael Kelley
<BR>www.RandomActsofEntertainment.com
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Vandy Grift
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You were already one of my favs MAK, but if you don't like commies... Then you went up another notch in my estimation!
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Tom Bartlett
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Are we the only three?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Tom Bartlett
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Dannydoyle,

You politically incorrect son-of-a-gun. Smile It’s good to have you back post’n.

Tom
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Dannydoyle
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don't get used to it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2007-01-31 15:04, magicmanci15 wrote:
Ok. so I did tell him where I worked, and after being there for a couple of months he had the job. But he then emailed me and said he had no idea it was me that worked in that place. did he forget? Is he trying his best not to look horrible? I only say he is "better" because he's been performing magic for 20 and me for 7. He's done countless shows, and worked in restaurants for many years also. He has a mailing list of hundreds of thousands of people that hes worked for. His claim is better backed up, no doubt. I blame myself 100% Maybe Ill just show up in a disguise and heckle him ;D

Just Kidding. Two wrongs don't make a right. Im looking for the perfect place that I can stay at for a longtime. Hopefully they'll hire me for all the reasons we both want.

Ivan


Yes, but is there any indication that he "undercut" you? It's possible with the greater experience and mailing list, he was able to make a better deal that you have. I'm not saying this is a fact, only that it's possible. I keep hearing; "How dare he 'undercut' another magician!" when I haven't seen indications that he actually has.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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