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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
What one book, in your opinion, comes closest to being an encyclopaedia of all the many different sleights and passes associated with cups and balls?
Apropos of that, read an interesting piece written by the late great,Charlie Miller in which he speculated that the reason why there are so many scores upon scores (hundreds?) of C&B passes is that C&B buskers of old would have to perform out in the open for hours on end. They had to keep on varying their routines because many of the spectators would stick around for a long time, expecting, of course, to see something a little different each time the trick was performed. Hence the need for C&B performers to come well armed with a whole host of variations on a common theme. Anyway, would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the question raised at the beginning. Fortasse |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I don't think there is ONE book that gives you everything, but there are two that come very close.
The Ammar book and the Garcia book will give you almost everything you will need.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
What about the Eddie Joseph or Osbourne books and/or the really old books (Guyot? Ozanam?)
Fortasse |
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts |
The garcia book is great. for anyone who needs it, showbizmagic.net still has a few in stock at a GREAT price. Check there first before those "frank's personal copy" eBay ones...
-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Eddie Joseph wrote many books on the cups and balls; however, he did not write a single book that has ALL of the work in it. And there is a lot missing from his books. There are several moves that are in both the Garcia book and the Ammar book that wasn't even around when Eddie wrote these books. The same is true of the Osborne book.
The material in Guyot and Ozanam is also quite out of date. And the scope is very limited. Given a choice of one book, I would go with Ammar.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
I agree - Ammar's book contains more than any of the others.
However, I don't like the way the book is laid-out with the photos and all those arrows. Having that design obviously saved on the amount of description that needed to be done, but it would be an even better book if it was tidied up a bit. Line drawings are often better than photos to illustrate a 'move' because you're able to focus on a very specific action and the starkness of the black & white heightens this. Photo's tend to be too 'busy' and too grey.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I agree. I also found the "Dymo label tape" captions and the highlighting somewhat distracting. If the photos had been 25% larger, it might have helped.
Having done this before, I understand where the problem is. It costs less to put a B & W photo into a book than to put a drawing in. A drawing requires that you pay an artist to interpret what is in a photo. Although there is software that will do this for you, it doesn't look as good as a really good drawing. When you construct a book like this, the cost of the book depends on the number of pages. It would have cost about 25% more to increase the size of the photos, space them a bit more conveniently, increase the type size by 2 points and make the book more readable. On the other hand, it is easier to read than Erdnase.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, I've always found it a bit disappointing that the book follows the Complete C&B videos almost to the letter (the chapters are often transcripts of what Michael says on the videos - or vice versa). It would have been nice to have a book that complemented the videos and enhanced what's contained on them. One of my favourite features in the book are the interviews with all the C&B workers - those sections give a wonderful insight into their individual 'take' on the cups and balls. I think if the book had been 25% bigger to accommodate those extra descriptions and drawings, then it would have become the definitive C&B encyclopaedia. As it is, it's the best so far: a very good book, but not a great book.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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MinnesotaChef Regular user Minneapolis,MN 176 Posts |
Isn't it stated somewhere that the book and the videos were meant to be used all together as one teaching tool, each one filling in the gaps of the other? This would tidy up the shortcomings of each seperate component.
"Great restaurants are, of course, nothing but brothels.There is no point in going into them if one intends to keep one's belt buckled."- Fredric Raphael
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I don't know, but it should be.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Eric Leclerc Inner circle Ottawa Ontario 1185 Posts |
I would say study this whole forum topic.. "Ever so sleightly"
it seems the cups and balls is the only trick which uses sleights........ |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Bill ought to write a complete cups and balls encyclopedia, he sure has the knowledge and background to do it, could include a chapter on history of cups and another on types of cups as well. How about it Bill?
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
I'll second that!
Fortasse |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-01-27 17:23, Eric Leclerc wrote: Occasionally, a stray post about sponge balls or color changing knives creeps in. Actually, the reason you see so much about cups and balls here is that the other types of magic that use sleights, coins and cards, already have their own sections.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-01-27 19:03, photius wrote: I don't know enough about yet. I'm working on it, though. Maybe in a year or two, I'll have a coffee table book and a worker's manual.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Bill,
I do look forward to the book very much . . . Andy
Cards never lie
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts |
I've got money in hand bill. can't wait to see nice big close up pictures of those cups in your museum!
-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Well, like it says on the web site, I'm no expert. I'm just a guy with a lot of cups. It took me two years to figure out how to photograph cups. I still don't have the ideal rig, but I know how to build it now!
Try this sometime. Take your favorite shiny cups, put them on your favorite surface and photo graph them. See what the lighting is that gives you the best picture and the clearest shot. Pete Biro helped me a lot, and I don't think he even knows how much he did.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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JamesTong Eternal Order Malaysia 11213 Posts |
Bill is right. It is not easy to shoot photos of cups.
I tried them - and the shining reflections, background, arrangements of cups with the balls, etc. takes a lot of thinking work and trial and error. You really did a very good job on the photographs of the cups in your museum, Bill. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Thanks! There is no real secret to it. It's just a matter of observing where the light falls.
Also, reading a lot of texts, then asking the right questions helped a whole lot.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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