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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » RNT2 Entry level Cups (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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lint
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Concord, CA
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I gotta say, the new cups look great and the prices are fantastic. I'm not a huge fan of satin finishes, but I look forward to adding a few sets. What are everyone else's thoughts? The traditionals look fantastic!

http://www.rnt2.com/productlist.aspx?cat......tegory=Y

-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Tom G
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They look like great cups, and coming from Jake, they have to be good. Certainly will knock the market for the Penguin cups.
boboshempy
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Jersey
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Does having a satin finish make them more economical?

Nick
Dave V
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Yes! I'd much rather have a good quality satin finished cup than a poorly made polished one.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
fbnc
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The new cups look great, price looks great to. Wonder if Jake will put out a combo set.
lint
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I'm guessing the satin 'marks' them as the econo-versions?

-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Cory Gallupe
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Why are these so cheap compared to the originals? The only difference I can see is the 300 dollar ones are polished, and these aren't. (Although, there must be more to it than that.)
Do these cups antique like any other copper cup? (You know, turn that beautiful rich brown color?)
I was thinking of buying a set of Penguin cups but, now that these are out, I'm either gonna buy the Squatty cups or the Jim Sisti cups.
But my major question is, why are they cheaper than the originals? What are the differences?
Mr. Muggle
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Because the cups don't have a polished finish, they take less man hours to complete and are less expensive. The gauge of metal is also a factor in both construction time and material cost - but I must admit, I'm not sure if there has been a change or if these have the same gauge as the original cups. I would also guess that the ‘entry line’ cups have a thinner wall diameter, which would affect the price...but again, this is speculation on my part – Jake or Bill should be able to elaborate on my comments.

Here is the point we really need to drive home...

This new 'entry line' gives starting magicians a reason to NOT buy any of the China made ‘faux’ cups. For only a few dollars more, you can now get a quality starting product that is made in the USA by a quality dealer that isn’t an unauthorized, inferior copy.

I tip my hat to you, Jake, I’ll be sending in my order for a set or two.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Mad Jake
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Folks, thanks for your compliments and kind words. This has been in the works since taking over RNT II, but it had to be planned carefully. I never intended to keep up a Collector's type only product. Now onto an explanation of the drop, why and how long it will last.

First, the finish is a satin finish, which does not require a lot of man hours to satin. A mirror cup from start to finish can take over 1 hour for 1 cup. If you were to go to a professional plater to polish a copper set of Sisti's, the cost would be between 75.00 and 100.00 for a professional polish. The patina on the copper cups will actually start to occur quicker on a satin set than a mirror finished, as the metal is open and not closed like after a mirror polish is put on. You already see a price drop of 100.00 just in polishing.

Next, bag and balls: The balls are the same quality that we have always made, no difference there. The bags are still made by Marcy here at RNT II; however, no embroidery. To disclose what a professional embroidery shop charges us is anywhere from 12.00 to 20.00 a bag. Bet you can guess which logo costs us 20.00 a pop. <grin>

Routines are still provided with gracious courtesy of John Mendoza.

Most material is ranging between 048 and 052 but never less than 040. Because of today's technology with computers, we have been able to actually spin cups at pretty much the same weight with a slightly lighter gauge metal. Also, taking the odd size sheets that are available from vendors at good prices has helped up bring this to life. While the gauge plays a large part in the products, so does pre and post production, meaning the annealing process. There has been an added annealing process to the cups to strengthen the cups so they will hold up just as well as heavier gauge cups.

All the products receive the same attention in this line as with any of our collector pieces. The collectible pieces we do have planned for the next 2 years are limited, but they are quite labor intensive and are going to be worked on in-between our Main Stream productions. Currently, there are 187 products drawn out for the new line we have introduced.

And last, but certainly not the least, is that these Main Streams items are only available through RNT II. One would not believe the equation that is figured into pricing when you have to include wholesaling and/or jobbering.

We do not, and will NEVER, farm our work out to mass production facilities outside the US; that is not us and will NEVER be us. All our labor here is local or family labor. We have just hired a new machinist who will be working on a project for us involving some rather intricate moving brass parts. I, by no means, want anyone to think that this a one-man operation. I have built what I feel is a dependable team and one that could carry this on even if something should happen to me.

Thanks again to all who have given their thumbs up on this project. I would also like to thank Jim Sisti and Dr. Jonathan Schweid, Pres. of JESMagic, for allowing their items to be included. Both parties were thrilled with the idea and encouraged us to create these cups for the masses.

We'd also like to thank Mike Gallo for the use of his routine and name for some of our products.

Everyone, thanks again for those of you who have mentioned kind words and support. It means a lot to everyone here at RNT II.

Magic Wishes,
Jake & the Team
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
johnnymystic
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Wow, great looking cups, Jake!

Wish you would've started making 'em before I bought I Penguin Cups! Smile

johnny
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Mad Jake
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Quote:
On 2007-02-01 14:07, fbnc wrote:
The new cups look great, price looks great to. Wonder if Jake will put out a
combo set.


In the works!
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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Great job, Jake.
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Cory Gallupe
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OK, so these cups are EXACTLY the same as the originals, other than the satin finish?
TheAmbitiousCard
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I thought it used lighter gauge metal? Better ask Jake.
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Chessmann
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Finish, gauge, and bag logo.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Mad Jake
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Some of the gauges vary. However, we can maintain weight by the spinning process, how big of a disc we use, and how the metal is stretched during the spinning process; less cut off = additional weight left on the cup, even if from a lighter gauge metal. We match the sets as closely as possible, all within a reasonable tolerance of each other.

The choice is simple. Morrissey spins in 030 copper and aluminum. Penguin/MM Paul Faux Rip Off cups are scrap copper alloy, meaning about 40% of the cup is scrap metal, meaning iron, alum., or whatever else is mixed in with it. What it boils down to is a set of cups that is only 60% copper will pit over time. Those little black dots that appear over time on the MM cups are the pits coming to the surface after handling, and this is due mostly to the scrap metal mixed with the copper.

All our metal is the best copper, stainless, and brass for machining. And each cup is hand-spun, annealed, and polished just as our other cups are. The cups MM has are not annealed and are run straight down the block by a CNC spinning machine.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Mad Jake
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Quote:
On 2007-02-01 20:51, Chessmann wrote:
Finish, gauge, and bag logo.

Lions, Tigers, and Bears, Oh My!
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
lint
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Concord, CA
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Re: The traditionals you state: "A set of Ireland Chrome cups was used for the design foundation of these cups. We simply expanded the dimensions, corrected bead height."

Isn't this what Bill did with his Ireland reissues? Did the original Ireland Cups have such an obvious slant, or was that part of the 'expanded dimensions'? Regardless, they look wonderful...

-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Mad Jake
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The originals were a bit more straight. We just shuffled the bead up a ways, made some expansions, but the starting skew for the interior cup started with an Ireland set we have here. The reason for the taper is for the appearance of the final load looking bigger than it is.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
dxsare
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Out of curiosity, what is the weight per cup with the copper Squatty and Sisti Cups??

Awesome-looking Cups!! I'm so excited...and I thought I was gonna have to settle for the Penguin cups. This is great!

Stevie D
-Stevie D
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