The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Step right up! » » Jam Auction and more on Youtube (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
rossmacrae
View Profile
Inner circle
Arlington, Virginia
2446 Posts

Profile of rossmacrae
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=real+hustle

That, folks, is a link to Youtube with a search for a British TV show called "The Real Hustle".

There's a (crude) jam auction demonstrated and explained for the viewing public, plus dozens of other hustles and scams. I highly recommend viewing them all.

"Are you happy? If you're happy, let me see your hand, raise your hand if you're happy! Jimmy, everybody who's happy, give 'em their money back!"
DonDriver
View Profile
Inner circle
1792 Posts

Profile of DonDriver
I have seen that video before.Trust me its all BS and has nothing to do with a REAL Jam Auction.Now I'm sure your thinking I would say that so you would buy mine when I come out with it...WRONG!

First off,they aren't call JAM AUCTIONS in England.They are called "run out joints" over there.

The press is always trying to "expose" different scams.They never get it just right.

From what I saw of the vid,I promise the "TIP" were all actors and in on it.If you ever worked a REAL Jam Auction as I did for years,you would get a big laugh out of that vid.

that's the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth...so help me...

Don
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
LOL!

This seems to be typical of these types of shows. They have some of the general idea, but it looks like they miss the point.

The weird thing is, I assume this show is supposed to be a deterrent. And they only show enough so that MAYBE a person would recognize a jam if it was going down. BUT, that "jam auction" that they showed wasn't even that bad. It might not deter anybody, those people didn't get screwed that bad at all. 4 dollars of stuff for 20 bucks would be a good deal at some of the auctions I've heard about. LOL! Hell you get less value from the average knife/slicer/chamois pitchman.

I'm not saying they should, but if they wanted to deter people from getting caught up in a jam auction, they should have showed what REALLY could have happened to the G's. Espically if the jam man is realy tearing it up. No self respecting jam auctioneer would have closed the doors and driven away while there was that much money standing in the tip.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
rossmacrae
View Profile
Inner circle
Arlington, Virginia
2446 Posts

Profile of rossmacrae
Quote:
No self respecting jam auctioneer would have closed the doors and driven away while there was that much money standing in the tip.

I noticed that.

But it's about as close as you can expect from the media.

I've often commented to the Mrs. that many of the currently-trendy "behind the scenes with an expert" shows are shaped less by usable information, more by the need to fill up a weekly half-hour and keep it entertaining.
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
Don, it sounds like you are going to come out with a Jam Auction DVD!!!

I can't wait to get it. If it's anything like your others, it will be pure gold.

Mark. Smile
gman
View Profile
Special user
Lancaster, pa
751 Posts

Profile of gman
Ross, I took a look at the show and thought that you could have prodouced a better and probably more realistic show. Can you imagine if they actually consulted someone who has the experience of working in one -- someone like Don.
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Quote:
On 2007-02-01 21:02, rossmacrae wrote:
I've often commented to the Mrs. that many of the currently-trendy "behind the scenes with an expert" shows are shaped less by usable information, more by the need to fill up a weekly half-hour and keep it entertaining.


I think that's probably the case.

Not that I begrudge the people involved in making the show anything. If they can sell a "expose" show that dosen't expose anything, more power to em'.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Rev.moonchild
View Profile
Regular user
Bristol, Pa.
174 Posts

Profile of Rev.moonchild
I don't think I ever seen a Jam Auction .But Don't you think R.Paul Wilson Which is a very good Mage and fellow Scoundrel know what he is doing ?
Could that be the way it is done over on the other side of the pond ? I mean he dose keep pretty good company when it comes to the Cons. He is on Whit Haydn's Video showing how the 3 card monte is set up on the street with Billy McComb picking Whit's wallet at the end .
Follow the spirits of the wind and you will find your voice
<BR> Rev. Moonchild
<BR>
<BR>www.magicalelixer.com
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Quote:
On 2007-03-01 11:09, Rev.moonchild wrote:
I don't think I ever seen a Jam Auction .But Don't you think R.Paul Wilson Which is a very good Mage and fellow Scoundrel know what he is doing ?



Hey Rev, how ya doing?

Don Driver knows what he's doing too. He's worked the jams and even built tips for the "gee whiz kid"! And he knows about the way the British run their "runout joints".

I like R Paul Wilsons work very much. But I defer to Don on this one, I've heard first hand from Don himself.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
DonDriver
View Profile
Inner circle
1792 Posts

Profile of DonDriver
Sorry Moonchild and Mr Wilson but that vid is all wrong...it just is.

Thanks Vandy...

Don
DonDriver
View Profile
Inner circle
1792 Posts

Profile of DonDriver
The reason the US Jam Auction aren't as hard core as as British Run out Joints are is,over here we want to do more than just one pitch before we get "RUN OUT" LOL

Don
slap aces
View Profile
New user
40 Posts

Profile of slap aces
For the record, the "Jam Auction" shown is based on an old scam recorded as "The Bouncer" in either The Bunco Book or Rich Uncle From Fiji. It's a legit scam but NOT technically a Jam Auction.

Paul informs me that a producer on the show used the name Jam Auction without consulting him or Alex.

Either way, someone knowledgeable about the history of cons and scams should know these books - they're hardly obscure.

They also did another version of the Run Out Joint known in the UK as a "Mock Auction". "Run Out Pitch" is the term used by the operators of this scam but "Mock Auction" is how the police and official watchdogs refer to it when warning the public. Hence the preference to use a term that might be known.

So called "experts" on THIS forum seem quick to jump on the fact that they know better but apparently the Real Hustle guys (Paul and Alex) went to several real Mock Auctions secretly recording every detail of the pitch. They then recreated one and filmed it.

Remember they bring in real members of the public, film them with hidden cameras and try to take their money. Unlike actual THIEVES they have to rehearse the scams (at length and in detail) then have only a few chances to actually perform them.

The Jam Auction was misnamed by a laymen producer. The actual Mock Auction they shot (for the second series) was very good and they sold a bunch of garbage to a lot of people (which was the point).

I can tell you guys know some stuff but give Paul and Alex a break - they're performing several scams a week and making them work. Thier show is a big hit over there and I know it takes a lot of work to film scams that sometimes look impromptu.

I know for a fact that the guys are always researching new material from current con games to age old scams. Why not share your experience instead of criticizing?

One other thing - I've recorded my fair share of confidence games and they are never identical from place to place or time to time - they grow, develop and change constantly. Stating "I saw it this way and they got it wrong" just isn't fair.

Even though the item called "Jam Auction" was not technically a jam auction it was clearly related and either way, it was a great scam.

Paul tells me every scam is a long journey from source material (news reports, books etc.) to the five minute segments they eventually release. They have to consult with lawyers, producers and the BBC on every detail.

They don't just go out, turn on the camera and hope for the best....
Danny Hustle
View Profile
Inner circle
Boston, MA USA
2393 Posts

Profile of Danny Hustle
Quote:
On 2007-03-01 18:16, slap aces wrote:
So called "experts" on THIS forum seem quick to jump on the fact that they know better but apparently the Real Hustle guys (Paul and Alex) went to several real Mock Auctions secretly recording every detail of the pitch. They then recreated one and filmed it.



The so called "expert" on this forum that you are talking about is Don Driver. Don actually WORKED A JAM AUCTION for a couple of DECADES He is not just a MAGICIAN who has never worked an actual joint in his life now doing a T.V. show.

It often annoys the ever-loving stuffing out of me when magicians confuse ENTERTAINMENT for the real deal. Magicians are enamored with this stuff and fancy themselves experts because they have read some books. When a guy who has WALKED THE WALK for a few decades comes and gives you his EXPERT opinion on something that is being delivered as ENTERTAINMENT I think some respect is in order.

These guys on T.V. did a fine job making the thing palatable to a home viewing audience. That is their job. I have nothing but respect for them. They have researched, and done a very good job. But the bottom line is, it is what it is. A MOCK joint set up by a couple of skilled magicians/actors/historians. Do not take that as a dig, I have nothing but the greatest respect for them and what they are doing, but the fact remains.

Don Driver is a guy who worked the biggest Jam joints in the U.S. of A. FOR REAL. He has forgotten more about a jam than the magicians who wrote the books ever knew. As a matter of fact, I know that many (if not all) of the "heavy hitters" in the con-expose magic circles have nothing but the greatest respect for Don Driver and consider him the final authority on things like the Jam Auction.

There is a difference between entertainment and the real deal. The magicians who perform this stuff on TV know and respect that.

I am not an expert, and I am not voicing an opinion one way or the other about what occurred on T.V. I wouldn't know, and I am smart enough to know that. I also know that the opinion I would respect most is the one of the guy I know actually did time in the trenches FOR REAL and not some guy who filmed him.

Best,

Dan-
Image

"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Well, well ,well...

I don't know what I was thinking. I completely forgot where I was for a minute.

Sorry slap aces, we don't know anything, you are 100 percent correct. Everyone here is a phony "expert". Only Paul and Alex know everything.

I don't know who the hell 3 of diamond is, but his posts have been deleted and a friend of Pauls has come down, from on high, to set us all straight. Sorry for even discussing it.

We did give Paul and Alex a break. I said several times that I have the upmost respect for Pauls work. I have said I understand the issues that go into making a show of this type and stated that I don't even care if they missed the mark. So fine, I'll take you little scolding. I forgot where I was for a minute. Paul, Alex, and slap aces are 100 percent correct. And I know nothing about the jam auction or anything else. So consider me, "set straight".

Don actually worked one of the big jam auctions right on Fremont street, but I guess he knows nothing about it either. Don, you better go out and get a copy of "Rich Uncle From Fiji", or at least watch the "Real Hustle" and learn about this stuff.

Oh and here's one more thing. The "mock auction" that they did was not "very good" nor was it a "great scam." It was complete crap. OK? As I've said above, some pitchmen give less value for the buck than our "mock auctioneers" did in that video and they are doing a straight pitch. So how was that "mock auction" such a great scam?

Forget I even mentioned it.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
DonDriver
View Profile
Inner circle
1792 Posts

Profile of DonDriver
Thanks Dan..I have seen other expose on the Jam here and have read stories in new papers about it.Not once have they even come close.

Now I'm speaking for U.S. Jam Auctions not British Run Out Joints,as I've never worked in one.

I sure didn't mean to upset the apple cart here.Mr Wilson is just doing a show and I'm sure hes doing a great job at it.

As for Slap Aces and his post.He has a right to an opinion and what he see as right.Slap aces post didn't upset me at all.Its good to have other opinion's.

For some reason,I think his name was Six of Diamonds put up a post that agreed with me and that post got deleted.He didn't bad mouth anybody so I have no idea why it was deleted.

Maybe one day I'll do a DVD on the subject.

Thanks guys,
Don
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Quote:
On 2007-03-02 09:51, DonDriver wrote:
For some reason,I think his name was Six of Diamonds put up a post that agreed with me and that post got deleted.


When they come around to "clean up" again, they'll probably delete mine as well. No biggie.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Rev.moonchild
View Profile
Regular user
Bristol, Pa.
174 Posts

Profile of Rev.moonchild
Don't get me wrong guys ... I respect Don in a big way . I own both of his DVD's and will be doing his Svengali Pitch this summer (thanks Mr. Driver) . I also respect Paul And spoke to him more then a couple of times .
Like I said, I don't know about the Jam and was asking mybe it is the way they do it over there .

PS... Hey Don I need another DVD (Wink, Wink) So I will know the Jam
Follow the spirits of the wind and you will find your voice
<BR> Rev. Moonchild
<BR>
<BR>www.magicalelixer.com
R P Wilson
View Profile
V.I.P.
235 Posts

Profile of R P Wilson
Hey guys,
I've arrived late to this and I hope no one but me was getting bad mouthed!

As SA stated we spend a great deal of time on these things for what turns out to be very difficult items to film. anyone who has ever worked in TV knows how much goes into making these shows.

Alex and I are very fortunate that we get to pull all these scams and experience them from the con man's point of view. Producers often get mixed up and little mistakes like misnaming the Jam Auction sre natural and you guys were right to point that out.
I've been around mock auctios since I watched them in Gordon Street in Glasgow when I was a kid. It took me a long time to figure them out and ot until Alex and I started sneaking into them last year to record their pitch did I fully appreciate how clever they were.

I spent several years pitching Svengalis and the guy I worked for (I think his name was Derek White) was an old time pitchman who had worked all sorts of joints. He was the first to tell me about the "Who's Happy" auction. Derek taught me how to pitch Svens and all the little tricks that made people buy something. I've been into cons and scams since I was just a boy but, luckily, I never went so far as to get into the life and for that I'm grateful.

Guys like Don are invaluable to people in my position. When they are willing to share their knowledge we can learn a great deal, apply it to our work and improve our understanding. There's no substitute for experience.

SA wasn't refering to people in this thread with his "experts" comment but it was poorly worded and I hope he steps back in to clear that up. He did recognise that you guys "know your stuff" and I certainly agree with him there.

We've performed over a hundred scams in our two series and two specials to date - series three will show a hundred more. While it's a great deal of work for all concerned, Alex and I still get a huge thrill from the cons we pull off and, thanks to our experience and extended interest in the world of cons and scams, we are able to try to maintain authenticity so that the heart of every scam is never compromised for production reasons.

I'm glad you're all discussing the show and I welcome any suggestions you have. I don't think there's any need for name calling or rudeness, even in support of our show.

Best,

P
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Thanks a lot Paul. I have said here and in other places that I have Mucho Respect for you and your work. And I love the stuff from the "Real Hustle". There was nothing personal in anything I said, and I KNOW there was nothing personal on Dons part. Don never gets worked up about that kind of thing, but he's a friend so I didn't like to see his views dismissed. Which I now know wasn't the case.

I applaud your success and I have no beef with the show. We were just pointing out that what you shot wasn't a "Jam Auction" as we know it. Honestly, I didn't know if that was by design or accident. I was just sayin'.

Thanks for clearing things up.

I still say you gave em too much for their money Smile
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
DonDriver
View Profile
Inner circle
1792 Posts

Profile of DonDriver
Hello Mr.Wilson,
Thanks for the post.Like I said before I have no idea how Mock Auctions or Run Out joints work in Britian as I never worked one.

Mr.Wilson if you ever want to know about Jam Auctions in the U.S.,I'll be more than glade to share.Ask Whit Hayden,we talked a lot about them on my last trip to the castle.I would love to save all I learned working them sometime before I die, just for the history.(and the way I smoke...that might not be to long... lol)

You can email me at pitchmandondriver@hotmail.com if you ever want to do something on the U.S.Jam Auction.

Thanks for your kind words Mr Wilson.
Have a great day,
Don
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Step right up! » » Jam Auction and more on Youtube (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL