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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Skip Way many things you say are right. Global warming though is happening - there's too much evidence to deny it. It's there and something has to be done to reduce the effects.
And you're right about local atmospheres being cleaner but this has to do with more than that. People are tearing down forests at an alarming rate in order to feed the demands of our markets. Take away the demand and the market isn't there. That's what a lot of these proceses are about. making us think and modify our purchasing behaviour. OK, we do become swept up by all the requirements made upon Big Business, small buisiness and tiny ones like ours but we all have our part to play. In the UK it is the Local Government Councils and National Gowvernment who set the pace as they do with most things we are discussing - Public Liability Insurance, Risk Assessments, Electrical Test Certification, Anti Child Abuse protection and more. Who's leading the way on this one your side of the pond? Or is it like the gun lobby - nobody dares say anything?
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-02-08 09:43, Skip Way wrote: Amen Skip.
Mister Mystery
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
The problem is, just as we in Europe and America are slowly realising the devastating impact carbon emissions are actually having; and whilst we're still just trying to slow the increase of, and not actually reduce, these emissions, everone else suddenly wants to jump on the pollution bandwagon. India and China, along with all the other under-developed economies of the World, all want to start burning loads more fuel to creat "modern civilisations". So, frankly, it's a bit hopeless, and the sad reality is most likely Nature will shortly be strutting Her stuff in most scary and devastating ways.
We kidshow performers should just keep making people happy! |
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chris mcbrien Inner circle Chicago 1235 Posts |
I try to route the quickest route, both for time and gas spent....
I try to groups schools together that are in the same are for the same reason. My car is not the most fuel efficient, but give me another year and I"m already eyeing the hybrids... Tony, I think aside from the emissions issue (which is important, obviously) the British government needs to start helping people make money and improve it's employment rate before it takes yet another "toll" on it's people...and this is from someone who lived in the UK and dearly loves that country and it's people. I use effects that don't have "waste" left behind such as paper (snowstorm effects) or the like. I take care of my equipment so I'm not sending it off to land fills... I don't think Tony's topics are running thin, I'm glad he's here as I"m glad that many of you are here... Best to All, Chris |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
We have a very poor opinion of politicians in the UK. Fortunately we have our Royal Family to rise above all that.
And Skip - I'm not disagreeing with you either. I'm dealing with the reality. Over the last twenty years we've gone in the UK from what I am begining to detect is the stage you are at right now to where we are today. And it's a whole different ball game. No good saying what's it got to do with us. Ignore it and you won't get the business, not here nor across Europe. The same requirements apply right across. To maintain our business we need to work with and within the rules. And you will find some mighty international pressure being brought to bear on vehicle fuel consumption and emisssions, the world over and America particularly. I think most people recognise that. The lead comes from governments, taxing heavily and making life very expensive and uncomfortable but what in the end will condition the way we live is public opinion. It's public opinion that's driven some of the worst, heavy cars off the roads here and now the 4 x 4s are under pressure. Whether you agree or disagree with proposals, it's public opinion which moves things along in the end.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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jolyonjenkins Inner circle United Kingdom 1181 Posts |
The one consoling thought it that, even in America, no one is going to take advice on climate science from a magician.
Jolyon Jenkins
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drhackenbush Special user 686 Posts |
Luckily we 'Muricans tend to be a rather anti-intellectual lot, more interested in unimportant trivial celebrity gossip than anything that involves *ulp* independent thought. I mean, who cares about the environment when we can hear what some working actor just ate for breakfast. Move along, nothing to see here.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Um... folks.
There is an industrial revolution happening in China as we speak where it looks like they are going to use coal, oil and wood to fuel their factories. That is around two BILLION people getting up to speed with things like cars and electricity generation and railroads and paving roads and... As to the direct question... [sarcasm]how about telling them your act includes a soda-to-gas trick where you pour the soda in the cars and trucks outsides gas tanks and thus not only prevent them from polluting but also create a demand for skilled labor. [/sarcasm] Sheesh
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If we attack the planet, surely the planet will fight back and just kill us. So I don’t what they are worried the planet for.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Scott O. Inner circle Midwest 1143 Posts |
To be honest, Skip is right on the money. This is entirely politically driven. And it is taken to extremes, because that's what politicians do. Power corrupts-- and I'm MUCH more willing to accept that as a FACT than global warming. Really, how long have we been taking measurements? Not that many years- about 100. We see a small increase in temperature (I believe 1 degree?) and suddenly the earth is doomed and we humans are to blame. How do we know that this isn't just a natural process -- an ebbing and flowing of the natural cycle over long periods of time? We don't. Global Warming is merely a theory. But like so many "scientific" theories of the past century, it touted as fact WAY before it ever reaches the stage of a scientific law. [Law: A statement of scientific fact that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon is invariable under given circumstances]
Maybe the world is warming up-- but to postulate that we are in control of that is a bit of a leap. And on top of that to legislate this down to the individual consumer level is just way out of bounds. I do realize that Europe is generally a decade or two ahead of the US when it comes to social reforms. Thus, sadly, we as Americans are probably heading in the same direction as Britain. I hope I'm wrong. All this to say -- I'm not in favor of trashing the environment that we all share. Certainly, we have an impact on the earth. But let's concentrate on the real facts. Then let's go clean up our shows -- make them tighter, funnier, more magical. Entertain the best you can.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
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sadham christian New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-02-08 13:42, Jonathan Townsend wrote: And the same in India... do those goverments propose any such tactics? NO.... Mother nature will do what she wants. |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Man thinks 'cause he rules the earth he can do with it as he please.
And if things don't change soon, he will.-Bob Dylan I love that song. Don't necessarily agree with the sentiment when applied to global warming. But *** that's a great song.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-02-08 10:08, Tony James wrote: You see, Tony. A perfect example. With all due respect, HOW do you KNOW that global warming is happening? Because you have first hand personal scientific knowledge and experience with this issue...or because you choose to believe the alarmist media and the governing bodies who want to transfer more and more of your hard-earned cash from your pocket into theirs? How can any of us say what is or isn't happening with any certainty unless we have first hand, full-experience-based knowledge. The alarmists cry "Global Warming" with a lot of "look at this" and "look at that"...while other experts not in the government's or special interest group's back pockets can, so far, logically explain each individual issue in terms and conditions entirely unrelated to "global warming." And that includes the so-called vanishing ice caps. I will no more voluntarily give up my car or my personal habits for an unproven alarmist hue and cry than I will give up my personal firearms because "it will make the world a safer place!" By being able to stand and protect my family and neighbors if called upon to do so, I make my world a safer place. I will change my habits in purchasing products that use minimal packaging...hence less trash. I will recycle. I will use environment-friendly products where they will capably replace those that I'm already using. I will keep my engine tuned and well maintained and have annual emissions tests done. I will walk or bike wherever I can. I will do what I can to change that which I can change if I believe it makes a difference. I will not turn my life upside down for a doomsday global warming theory-of-the-month.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
The warming people KILL themselves in my eyes when I find things like this;
The panic-first method “has been the standard approach to building community consensus for federal action on global warming at least since 1989, when Stanford biological sciences professor Stephen Schneider told Discover Magazine that October, ‘We (scientists) need to get some broad-based support, to capture the public's imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.’ “Among others, Al Gore agrees with that approach. Last year he told the environmentalist magazine Grist, ‘I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.’ ” That's a fancy way of saying, "we need to overblow the case and create wild doomsday scenarios in order to scare people in to listening what we are saying and to scare them into doing what we want them to do." That's all that is.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Jim Poor Special user Fairfax, VA 676 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-02-07 23:57, todsky wrote: Can anyone say "coldest temperatures in a decade"? |
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MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
What really scares me about the laws that England is using is that it will have the effect of driving many small businesses into backruptcy or shut down altogether. Why he should be responsible for using a product that someone else made is beyond me. Let the people who made it answer for the product, not you.
I can't wait to see what happens when they eventually legislate these rules to the common man/woman in Britain, not just those in business. As for the gun issue, the Liberal Left is very vocal about trying to eliminate our 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. It is only when liberties are lost that people truly realize what they have given up and what the true cost will be.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Oh that folksingmagic, clearly smarter than all the rest of us. Too intelligent to even offer a bit of "independent thought". You know the stuff that the rest of us "anti-intellectual" 'Muricans lack.
I take an anti-intellectual (liberal,conservative,libertarian or anarchist) who will engage in discussion and debate over somebody who stands on the sidelines and mutters to himself under his breath, smug and secure in his perceived intellectual superiorty.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
What's sad is that this "panic-first" method has become standard practice by just about everyone with a cause. I see so much number-tweaked statistics that it is hard to pay attention to these doomsday reports anymore. Some may even have some credibility, but all the lobbying groups tend to play these numbers games nowadays in order to draw attention and tilt the scales in their direction so it is difficult to believe anything you hear.
Regan
Mister Mystery
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Being a middle aged Nihilist with no progeny I could really care less if the human race continues on after my demise. Just as long as I'm not inconvenienced or have my lifestyle diminished I'm perfectly happy to let someone else deal with this real or imagined problem. See by most projections the zenith of this supposed crisis won't occur until long after I've died. So really why should I care?
After all there isn't a single shred of proof that this crisis (if it is even really happening) has anything to do with mankind. Sure, the population has more than doubled in my lifetime but this couldn't have any effect on the environment. It's just a bunch of ultra liberal scientists from all over the world in a huge orgainized conspiracy to get those lucrative government grants that are perpetuating the myth of Global Warming. I've heard that there are lots of, at least five or six, "real" scientist out there who refute all these hair brained "end of the world" scenarios. They are brave souls who go against the common "group think" of their sheepish compatriots because they don't get their funding out of the pockets of you and I but are funded by people who have a vested interest in our well being energy and manufacturing corporations. There's not a single shred of proof (irregardless of what you might read in peer reviewed scientific publications) that this is a man manufactured situation. So why bother me with it and try to get me to reduce my consumption or get me out of my SUV into one of those intsi-bitty little electric cars that I can't even get my gun rack in? They can have my McMansion and all my over excessive amount of consumer goods when they pry them out of my sweaty dead through heat prostration hand! Yes, I've heard the arguments that even if there's no such thing as Global Warming (which there isn't) that much of the crap they want us to do would be good for the environment anyway. Curbing emissions and becoming more energy reliant and efficient they say is a good thing. Well not if it's going to increase the price of my blue jeans and huntin' shirts. I'll be dam*ed If I have to pay one more red cent for anything cause of some foolish environment regulation pushed down my throat by some tree huggin liberal. I want my house warm in the winter and cool in the summer and overly lit in every room 247. I'm an American after all and I deserve to use more than my fair share of the worlds resources. Freedom ain't cheap you know.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
See, that's why I like Payne. At least he comes out swinging. LOL!
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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